Figther/thief as main char?

Brynn · Post by **Brynn** » Thu Dec 29, 2005 3:50 am

OK I started to play BGII again, and since I've been all over it like 3 times with the very same mage (duh

) I'd like to try a Fighter/Thief for a change.

Now, I realized that I have no idea how to make a powerful melee character

I tried a Thief first, but evrey combat went like "miss, miss, (left)miss, miss..."

I couldn't even hit the target while Minsc finished them off with 2-3 blows.

So I took a fighter/thief, thinking that more proficiency points in the certain weapon type I'd like to use (dual-wielding scimitars or short swords) will do the trick. I just don't know whether multi-classing (taking a few Fighter lvls and then advance in Thief only) would be better, or dual-class is the way to go?

Another thing, how do traps work? I have Set Snare abilities but I never ever managed to set a single trap, I always fail.

What do they do if I can set them?

So, I'm completely lost with this class atm. It seems to me that Mages are much more viable in this game (maybe because that's what I'm used to?), they have an endless range of tricks AND can do a decent amount of dmg, while this poor little Thief is just swinging her blades cutting thin air, missing everything, doing some dmg and loosing HP pretty fast due to leather armor :speech:

I'm pretty sure it's just my lack of experience with melee classes, so any help would be appreaciated

Thanks!

Coot · Post by **Coot** » Thu Dec 29, 2005 4:19 am

Thieves aren't the most powerful class in the BG-series. Minsc will probably stay ahead of your pc when it comes to body counts.
They're versatile though, and very useful. There are numerous traps and locks in the game and it's very satisfying to backstab enemies.
Some tips (although many on this forum will do better than me):
- some people swear that the kensai/thief is one of the most powerful duals possible
- a thief doesn't necessarily have to be in the frontlines. You could equip your pc with a short bow - as you know, a short bow is a good choice in weapons. Other proficiencies could go into short sword, katana or whatever. Sneak up behind the enemy, backstab, get out of there and continue your attack from a distance
- A thief's choice in weapons may be a little limited, but they can use many powerful ones: the already mentioned short bows, but also the Celestial Fury (katana), Sword of Mask (short sword) and many others
- There are quite a few good leather armors and other items that'll help your thief survive
- Thieves will get the High Level Ability: Use Any Item eventualy

KaaH · Post by **KaaH** » Thu Dec 29, 2005 5:47 am

Traps -> (obvious but...) out of line of sight of enemies?!
Points spent on set snare?!

Thief or fighter/thief shine in the middle of the game

Thief: lvl 13 -> Backstab for 5x Damage (only assassin kit advance to 7x), after that only UAI is a big deal (my 2cents)

Figter: lvl 13 -> 2 Attacks (+ weapon skil) after that: hla -> Whirlwind

Ultimate Combo (Melee +Spells) F/M/T

sneak in
leave los
buff up
toss AOE spell
go invi
sneak boss
finish the rest

VonDondu · Post by **VonDondu** » Thu Dec 29, 2005 6:45 am

Single-class Thieves don't have much place in melee combat in a game like this. Since they have high Dexterity, which gives them a nice ranged attack bonus, it's best to equip them with missile weapons. Thieves are useful for picking locks, removing traps, and robbing stores, but since those activities are so mundane, Thieves never really shine in a game like this. They usually end up being support characters rather than main characters. There aren't very many good roleplaying opportunities for a Thief in the Baldur's Gate series, so it's only natural that you prefer to play a character who is great in combat rather than a character who is good at thieving and sneaking around.

Fighter/Thieves are great characters, especially if you have installed Throne of Bhaal. The High Level Abilities are very powerful, and strong melee characters are very useful in Throne of Bhaal. If you play with a small or medium size party, your multi-class character(s) can advance rather quickly. You can see the advantage of the Fighter's THAC0 table if you compare it to a Thief's. To me, there really isn't any other choice if I want to play a Thief character. I even edit Yoshimo to make him a 7th Level Kensai dualled to a Thief; it makes a huge difference.

Melee characters are fairly straightforward. Equip them with the best armor and weapons you can find, and buff them up (with potions or with the help of your spellcasters) before tough battles. Then hit your enemies as hard as you can.

I don't know if you've ever given Minsc leather armor so he can sneak around (that's one of a Ranger's most special abilities, but is seems to be overlooked by a lot of players) or let Minsc use his Druid spells. If you haven't done either of those things, you haven't used him to his full potential. The lesson is that you can play a melee character effectively even if you don't make use of all of his skills, but don't forget that those skills are available if you want to use them.

Fighter/Thieves are very good at backstabbing. You're probably aquainted with various ways to make your character invisible, so take advantage of those techniques to allow your character to inflict multiple backstabs before being attacked. You can wipe out whole groups of enemies before Minsc gets a shot at them. You can also use traps if you enjoy that sort of thing.

Lasher · Post by **Lasher** » Thu Dec 29, 2005 9:35 am

UIA- cast a mislead spell on your theif to take out drow, illithid, hulks, trolls or anything that can't see ivisible creatures.

fable · Post by **fable** » Thu Dec 29, 2005 11:54 am

Spam removed. If you have something to contribute to the thread, do so. If you just want to make jokes, take it to our SYM (Speak Your Mind) forum.

The Chosen One · Post by **The Chosen One** » Thu Dec 29, 2005 1:32 pm

Well fighter/thief is not especially good one I think. Yes you have possibilty of stealth and fighting, but you become weak as well (like every multiclass char)
My advice (if you want to play Multiclass) would be fighter/mage. Yes you can't wear armour and stuff like that BUT you still able to use fighter weapons (Celestial Fury + Daystar or Katana +3 = *THUMBS UPP*). Spellcasting ability gives you possibility to cast protection spells and other bloody good spells. You can cast hold or deathcloud and the same time you can slash everybody (with quite a damage if you have 18 STR and a good weapon). when u come up in higher levels you can make yorself very powerfull as solo or in party. =)

Cheers, Chosen

krunchyfrogg · Post by **krunchyfrogg** » Thu Dec 29, 2005 3:22 pm

I think a multiclassed Fighter/Thief is a very good protagonist, mainly because there aren't very many good thief NPCs. I like a F/M/T even more though.

The Chosen One · Post by **The Chosen One** » Thu Dec 29, 2005 4:01 pm

2Krunchyfrog

Isn't it hard to play F/M/T ?+

Coot · Post by **Coot** » Thu Dec 29, 2005 5:03 pm

IMHO the only reason you'd want to play a f/m/t is soloing. If you don't, almost all npc's can do what you can in their respective fields of expertise, only better.

KaaH · Post by **KaaH** » Fri Dec 30, 2005 6:46 am

F/M/F

or the one man army...

with this char you will have a hard time to not cheese (in the opinion of others)

full grown in lvl's you can

clone yourself to get a tank
project image yourself to get a support/damage caster

protect copies by using spell imunity divination

cast mislead on self and backstab for good

use items with use/day off your clones
spell trigger same as above

if played solo, your lvl progression is very fast, too (scribe scrolls and disarm traps/pick locks helps a lot)

BUT:
at some point it's just not funny how powerfull are (tactics mod changes this (parttime)

Minerva · Post by **Minerva** » Fri Dec 30, 2005 8:30 pm

[QUOTE=The Chosen One]Well fighter/thief is not especially good one I think. Yes you have possibilty of stealth and fighting, but you become weak as well (like every multiclass char)
My advice (if you want to play Multiclass) would be fighter/mage. Yes you can't wear armour and stuff like that BUT you still able to use fighter weapons (Celestial Fury + Daystar or Katana +3 = *THUMBS UPP*). Spellcasting ability gives you possibility to cast protection spells and other bloody good spells. You can cast hold or deathcloud and the same time you can slash everybody (with quite a damage if you have 18 STR and a good weapon). when u come up in higher levels you can make yorself very powerfull as solo or in party. =)

Cheers, Chosen[/QUOTE]

Mmm, I have to disagree here.

Thief being the weakest link among NPCs, so creating PC with thief skill is not a bad idea. I know, there's a funny one with thief/mage skill, but if you already have enough mages, or got annoyed with his chats etc., then need someone else.
Anyway, multi-class fighter/thief can take advantage of racial advantage (my favourite is elven. High Dex and proficiencies in longsword and bow), and with UAI and Greater Whirlwind.
There are good quality leather armours you can get early in the game (thieves quests, for example), and killing shadow dragon will give you the opportunity to make even better one(that armour I used until I hit ToB).

Well, I do like fighter/mage as well (I prefer dual class to multi for more mage power personally). But also fighter/thief MULTI class is one of my favourite.

Pellinore · Post by **Pellinore** » Fri Dec 30, 2005 8:48 pm

I like a half-orc fighter-thief with a 19 strength

Really killer backstabs. It really is a shame that there are only 2 good thieves in SoA (Jan and Yoshimo...Immie and nalia don't count). My next trip thru may just be a thief multi-class.

Thrifalas · Post by **Thrifalas** » Sat Dec 31, 2005 2:26 am

I concur that a single thief usually isn't something that great. I mean, their lock picking and trap finding is vital, the traps one of the most ridiculously overpowered things in the game, and their backstab can be crazy, but they don't, as already mentioned, shine.

That's a pure thief anyway. Multi- or Dualclassed it's a whole different story. Thief/Mages can trix so much it isn't even funny, and well... Fighter/Thieves. I soloed one through the whole series a while ago, and it's just soo wicked. xD

Traps. Backstab. UAI. Combine all the thieves strenghts with a good THAC0, Weapon Specialization and lot's of HP and you have something mean.

At the start you'll be simply a warrior with the ability to open locks and stuff, but going into ToB and recieving UAI will give you complete immunity to spells (100% mr, just charge those mages!), getting a nice damage output (Carso /2 24 str) and just being able to solo everything.

The Chosen One made a point though, that fighter/mages actually are stronger, but there's plenty of mages in the game, and only a few good thieves. I often find myself playing a dual/multiclassed thief when playing with a party, just 'cause I can't pick up Jan, Nalia or Yoshimo.

Conclusion: They're strong. Very strong. There's no game-controlled mage that will ever be a threat to you. Carsomyr, Traps, Backstab, Wicked! Minsc might still be able to deal as much damage as you (if you're not going backstabbing-spree's), but he can't match your other abilities at higher levels.

Play them. They're fun. ^^ ^^ ^^

Crucis · Post by **Crucis** » Sat Dec 31, 2005 8:06 pm

I'm a fan of the swashbuckler Thief kit. Give'em a good STR and DEX and you can have a swashy flip back and forth between melee and ranged combat. In some ways, they're better than the F/Th MC, in other ways, they're not. Yes, they don't have backsdtabbing, but they're very, very decent combat thieves and are great at the theiving skills. And as you get into the higher levels, you can get the HLA traps which are very, very potent when used properly. Heck, even the generic lower level traps are very potent when used properly.

Are swashies as good as the pure warrior classes in melee? Of course not. But with the right equipment and good tactics, they make very, very good PC's. And you'll never have to worry about not having a good thief in your party.

Coot · Post by **Coot** » Sun Jan 01, 2006 10:45 am

Another plus for the Swashbuckler is that he's single class and will level up quicker than the fighter/thief.

krunchyfrogg · Post by **krunchyfrogg** » Sun Jan 01, 2006 1:34 pm

yeah, but you have no need for a single classed thief.

As I said, even in a full party, playing a F/M/T will allow your Thief to be good enough in any Thief-related situation for the entire game.

Elrohir. · Post by **Elrohir.** » Mon Jan 02, 2006 2:00 am

But if ur fighter thief and go for late items its 100% magic resistance ^^. Even earlier with a bit of cheese

Coot · Post by **Coot** » Mon Jan 02, 2006 6:54 am

[QUOTE=krunchyfrogg]yeah, but you have no need for a single classed thief.

As I said, even in a full party, playing a F/M/T will allow your Thief to be good enough in any Thief-related situation for the entire game.[/QUOTE]The problem with multiclass characters, especially three classes like the f/m/t, is that they lvl slow. A single class character, including a thief, will lvl quicker. Thieves have more than enough abilities to put points and proficiencies in and some of the HLA aren't bad either.
Also, a f/m/t will stop your other partymembers from leveling at a decent rate too.

krunchyfrogg · Post by **krunchyfrogg** » Mon Jan 02, 2006 8:38 am

[QUOTE=Coot]The problem with multiclass characters, especially three classes like the f/m/t, is that they lvl slow. A single class character, including a thief, will lvl quicker. Thieves have more than enough abilities to put points and proficiencies in and some of the HLA aren't bad either.
Also, a f/m/t will stop your other partymembers from leveling at a decent rate too.[/QUOTE]
A multiclassed character will level slowly, this is true. What I don't think you're grasping is that the slower advnacement doesn't matter. You can handle all the Thief-related stuff in this game, even at the slower rate of being triple classed. You'll also gain HLA's faster, because you actually gain them faster than you would being single classed.

A triple classed character has no effect on the experience gained by other party members. I don't know where that idea came from.