Party advice, please. Mage mayhem

Brann · Post by **Brann** » Sat Jan 27, 2007 12:14 pm

Hi,
I think I need to get a better handle on spell casting. So I started a new game that will rely more heavily on magic AND is fun to play in terms of story and NPC interraction.
This is the team that is coming together, but I wonder if I'm going to be in trouble because of lack of melee fighters. Can anyone comment?

PC - Sorceror
Edwin - may or may not trade in spellhold
Viconia (currently still have Anomen. Having a hard time giving up his Turn Undead)
Korgan
Mazzy - haven't played her yet and I hear she has lots of fun with Korgan
Tsujatha mod - decent mage, romance (fun (?) conflicts with Edwin romance which I still have installed)

So, really, since it seems that Mazzy is better with a bow than a short sword, this leaves me with only Korgan on the front line, doesn't it? Will this get painful? Should I have made the PC a fighter?

I'm not above using Shadowkeeper to edit in some extra coin to get better equipment etc, but changing major stats would just unbalance things. But, rather than starting all over, can I tweak any of the above to give them greater ability in the front line?

Again, this is less about "playing by the rules" as it is to get a better grip on spell casting and to make sure the game is interesting. I'm liking Korgan so far

dragon wench · Post by **dragon wench** » Sat Jan 27, 2007 12:55 pm

Mazzy: with the right equipment, can be a good melee tank; make sure you pick up the Girdle of Hill Giant Strength from the Adventurer's Mart, and you'll be all set. She has an excellent natural AC as well.

Korgan: no melee worries there at all.

Viconia: can actually be made into a pretty decent tank when occasion calls for it, especially with a strength enhancing item. Have her cast "Draw Upon Holy Might" and "Holy Power," and she'll hold her own.

Edwin and Tsujatha: It depends on the install order, I think you need to install Tsu after Edwin, but check the Chosen of Mystra forum on Tsu, I'm pretty sure there is a compatibility note on the two on one of their sticky threads. The forum is now locked, but the information remains.

I think this party will be just fine, if anything, with a sorc, Tsujatha, and Edwin, you might even find yourself a bit overpowered.

EDIT
I just noticed you don't have a thief...
The game can be played without a thief, but you might want to consider adding somebody like Jan Jansen to the group. More mage madness, and he has some great banters with Korgan and Mazzy

VonDondu · Post by **VonDondu** » Sat Jan 27, 2007 4:02 pm

If your main character is a Sorcerer, you might pay more attention to spells than you would if your main character was a fighter. Players usually put most of their focus on the main character. If your fighter does most of the work, you might ignore your spellcasters.

Playing a Sorcerer with limited spell selections also makes you focus on a limited number of spells. That should help you become more familiar with them and what they do. But if you want true "mayhem", you could play a Wild Mage (as long as you have installed Throne of Bhaal, if it isn't required by the Tsujatha mod).

When I played with a party of Bards, I found that one good tank was all I really needed on the front line (my Blade). The others were more than just "support" characters. In some battles, my tank did most of the work, but in other battles, he served mainly as a distraction while the rest of my party went to town with spells. Two tanks and four spellcasters should be dynamite.

Korgan is the best NPC tank in the game (until you get to TOB). But don't underestimate Mazzy. Regardless of her small stature and proficiency with bows, she is a single-class Fighter. Forget about who she is and what she looks like for a moment. Just think about her attributes: any armor, any weapon, High Level Abilities from the warrior pool (in TOB), five proficiency points, the best THAC0 out of all the classes, and the highest hit points. Mazzy is a serious killing machine, just like ANY Fighter is. Give her a girdle of giant strength and her stats will look about as good if not better than anyone else's. If you want to edit her with Shadowkeeper, you can put her proficiency points in something besides short sword and shortbow (Two Handed Sword and Two Handed Weapon Style are always a good choice, even if it looks funny for a halfling), but you don't really need to change anything else. If you played it straight, you could give her proficiency points in other weapons as she levels up.

I'm not sure why you want Viconia in your party, but her Control Undead ability is an interesting alternative to Anomen's Turn Undead ability. However, Anomen is a much better melee warrior. If you decide to keep him, you can learn how to use Cleric spells to buff him up. In short bursts, he's even more powerful than Korgan. If you have Anomen in your party, you don't really need Mazzy (for any reason other than extra fun). Be sure to use Summon Deva/Summon Fallen Deva if you have TOB.

Jaheira is also an interesting choice, especially since she has a lengthy subquest. If I had to choose between Anomen, Mazzy, and Jaheira, I'm not sure which one I would pick. Anomen and Jaheira are cranky (so is Korgan), but Mazzy is sort of a stick in the mud. Mazzy is always steadfast and serious, while the other two are sometimes amusing when they go over the top.

Minsc is a really funny guy, and he's pretty powerful just the way he is. But I like to edit him to be a Berserker. When I play, he doesn't sneak around in leather armor charming squirrels; it's always the biggest sword I can find, full plate armor, and very loud, very vocal "buttkicking for justice". You might consider replacing Korgan with Minsc, unless you'd rather play an evil type instead of the heroic type.

I agree with dragon wench that you should add a thief to your party. Jan would really make things fun.

Personally, I think my choices would come down to this:

Sorcerer (PC)
Tsujatha (if that's the romance you want)
Korgan or Minsc
Jan
Anomen or Mazzy or Jaheira
Edwin or Imoen

Brann · Post by **Brann** » Sat Jan 27, 2007 4:42 pm

Thanks for the replies! Lots of things to think about.

I agree with the comments about Minsc and Jan, but I've had them with me (I adore Minsc) a few times and I just want to try some of the other NPCs. Ditto Anomen and Jahiera. I read somewhere that Viconia is an excellent cleric.

Regarding thief: I find nothing particularly interesting about disarming traps and locks (except where it's part of a quest) and it only slows down the game. So, for this run-through, I took those out with Ease-of-Use and pretend I just spent time unlocking a door. :laugh: Just have to be careful when certain locks and keys are part of a quest.

galraen · Post by **galraen** » Sun Jan 28, 2007 6:14 am

One possible drawback: The composition of your party indicates that your player character is evil, in which case the Tsujatha romance wont kick in, as he will not romance an evil PC.

Sytze · Post by **Sytze** » Sun Jan 28, 2007 8:30 am

Brann wrote:Regarding thief: I find nothing particularly interesting about disarming traps and locks (except where it's part of a quest) and it only slows down the game. So, for this run-through, I took those out with Ease-of-Use and pretend I just spent time unlocking a door. :laugh: Just have to be careful when certain locks and keys are part of a quest.

Do you have ToB installed? If so, a Thief becomes one of the most interesting classes available. Once you get Use Any Item you can, well, use and do anything you'd like. Practically no limitations. How can anything which can do everything be boring? The only limits are set by your imagination and of course your lack of Priest spells and other High level abilities. But compared to most other classes, that leaves you still with more options than you can probably try in a run through the game.

On top of that, if you're concerned about power, a Thief becomes great. Only recently did I discover the immense destruction a well-placed Time Trap, combined with Assassination or perhaps a Scroll of Time Stop and Mislead can have on anything in the game. It’s fun to behold and leaves your character with countless of possibilities to address any problem in the game. Late game, perhaps, but let’s not get nitpicky.

But that's ToB and this whole thief advertising might be completely useless if you don't have it installed anyway.

Forgive my enthusiasm in that case.

VonDondu · Post by **VonDondu** » Sun Jan 28, 2007 3:20 pm

Brann, since you told us what your experiences have been like, it's a lot easier to make suggestions for you. But I'm letting you know that any advice I give you is colored by own outlook on the game.

I'm in Chapter Three of a game I started a couple of days ago, and I'm already thinking about restarting. I'm playing with Fade (my first time with her), who seems to be very interesting, but so far the game lacks excitement for me. I think the main problems I'm having are that there are too many choices to make and I'm trying too hard to control what happens. I'm playing a Fighter/Mage for the first time, but I constantly have the impulse to change him to a Sorcerer, Wild Mage, or Fighter/Thief. I made him a Fighter/Wild Mage to help me pay more attention to his class (I keep forgetting what he is--maybe it's the dorky Mage robes that throw me off, but I'm sure the hydrocodone I'm taking due to some dental work has a lot to do with it as well). I made Fade a Swashbuckler so I could get rid of Minsc (to reduce my party size), but in my humble opinion her attitude isn't violent enough for a former pit fighter. (I'm playing a Chaotic Neutral character and I don't want to talk about restraint and "fighting my inner demons" all the time.) After Jaheira left with Meronia (she said that her loyalties lie elsewhere) and came back demanding that I walk into what is obviously a dangerous trap, I feel like killing her. It wasn't any fun to make a choice between Aerie and Fade because my character wants both of them. (Kind of like Sugar and Spice if you ever saw Batman Forever.) Haer'Dalis would be a good addition to my party (I like his doom-and-gloom-but-strangely-happy-go-lucky attitude), but I'm already playing my main character like I would a Blade, so I'm afraid that I would neglect one if I tried to play both of them. All of the choices I have and the clear knowledge that I can control everything that happens is really getting me down. My biggest regret about this game is that it's so serious and I can't recruit the Marx Brothers for my "mayhem".

I want to go to the extreme right now, so naturally, I recommend that you do the same. I say we should both install a bunch of NPC mods, the Pocket Plane Group Banter Pack, and the Cross Mod Banter Pack. Pick characters who get on your nerves (it will stimulate you). Let several characters fight over you. I think I'll install Kelsey (whom I can't stand), Tsujatha, and the Corthala Romantique. The Edwin Romance Mod is supposed to be compatible with Tsujatha, but I think you ultimately have to choose one romance over the other. I don't want to install the Edwin mod because I have the idea in the back of my mind that I might create my own Edwin mod someday and I don't want to see anyone else's interpretation before I develop my own. I'll either keep Fade or replace her with Jan, and I should probably recruit Anomen. (I'll let him fail his test so he'll be a bitter Chaotic character.) That ought to provide plenty of drama, and their abilities will provide some really wild game play. It doesn't really matter which class I choose for my main character, but you should pick the one you feel like playing the most.

PC (I'll probably play a Wild Mage)
Anomen
Kelsey (I'm going to disable his sound files if I can--I can only take so much annoyance)
Tsujatha
Valygar (I think that's who Corthala Romantique involves) or Korgan if Valygar does not appeal to you
Fade or Jan (you could use Edwin, especially since you don't need a Thief)
Sarevok in TOB if you or your party members end up killing one of the others (you can see where I think this party is going)

I have checked the compatibility lists, and I would use the following mods:

Baldurdash Fixpack and Text Update (I've had compatibility problems with the G3 BG2 Fixpack)
G3 Tweak Pack (replaces Ease of Use; I mainly use the convenience tweaks, not the rule changes; the multi-romance component is NOT compatible with all of the NPC mods)
Unfinished Business
Oversight (I don't install anything but the Alignment Correction component)
Ascension
CrossModBanterPack
Pocket Plane Group Banter Packs

You ought to see if the G3 Anniversary Mod is compatible with those. It's a silly quest that adds a lot of humor to the game. The SimDing0 Quest Pack is okay, too. You might look for a more focused mod that adds one particular quest, such as Desecration of Souls or one of the many others that are out there, but you need to check for compatibility.

Brann · Post by **Brann** » Sun Jan 28, 2007 7:11 pm

Thank you again, for all the info. I just love these posts - every time someone offers a new way of looking at things it's like you can play a whole new game (or parts thereof)

Galraen: PC is neutral good and Tsujatha has no problem with it. I don't really get the all-good or all-evil party. I just include whoever suits and try to keep my alignment in the middle of the road.

VonDondu: excellent points in there! I agree about Kelcey - tried to uninstall the nerdy soundfiles but didn't manage. (but his char made me want to try a Sorceror, which I like so far). I had super fun with him in ToB over the Anomen incident. Man, he cries at the drop of a helmet.
Then again, Tsujatha sounds like Niles Crane from the Frasier show when he's trying to sound really snooty. How's that for trying to have a romance? And if he mentions his ex-sort-of-girlfriend one more time he's getting kicked to the curb. Whiner. After forbidding me to flirt with Anomen he's not even noticed that I'm carrying on with Edwin.
Can't someone write a romance that includes Solaufein's brains, Tsujatha's passion, and Anomen's machismo? Unbelievable that, with the Banter and Flirt packs installed, Anomen's romance was actually appealing toward the end. Is Xan interesting?
I decided to keep Anomen and, as you suggested, let him make the "wrong" decision. I can't believe how uncomfortable that made me feel - the ultimate success of an RP game, I guess.

Sytze - Good info about the thief! I will consider spending more time with that class in the next play-through.

I've not picked up Mazzy yet. So far Minsc and Edwin haven't anything to say to each other so maybe that's working out, after all.

So now I have
PC Sorceror
Minsc and Korgan
Edwin and Tsujatha
Anomen

And, like DragonWench suggested, it seems a little overpowered, even. But I'm learning my spellchucking (as Korgan puts is), finally

Brann · Post by **Brann** » Tue Jan 30, 2007 8:23 am

Okay, I got it it now.

Rebound-boy Tsujatha started waxing poetic about his unrequieted love again so I gave him a personal quest to go get her back, if that's what he wants. If he's as evil as he pretends (although I've seen no evidence of), he should have no trouble knocking off the new hubby and taking his place.

So then I installed Xan. The new version (I have not played the old one). So far I like what I see! Lots of dialogue options that seem to go into various and interesting directions. I think I'll have fun with this one. (I do admit to fixing his ridiculously low constitution - can't have him falling asleep every few miles).