KUPP (Klorox's Ultimate Powergaming Party)

[Klorox]

This is KUPP (Klorox's Ultimate Powergaming Party). As you'll see, I have been heavily influenced by the UPP presented on this site as a sticky (silverdragon72's). I'm not too far into the game, but IMO I'm too far to turn back. Any tweaks or advice is greatly appreciated. BTW, I'm currently right outside the Goblin Warrens.

Character 1:
Male Drow Fighter4/Rogue3/Barbarian3/Wizard20 (Currently Rogue 2/Barbarian1/Fighter2)
This is a clone of the character #1 presented in the UPP stickied here. I modified the stats a little bit, starting with a higher INT (I figured that since I would need to improve it anyway, I may as well get the extra skill points), and dropped the starting STR. I love the idea of a character who is a tank in normal mode, and becomes a great wizard in HoF.

Character 2:
Female Drow Monk2/Rogue1/Fighter2/Ranger1/Transmuter5/Dreadmaster19 (Currently Monk2/Rogue1/Ranger1/Dreadmaster1)
This character is very similar to the character #2 in the UPP stickied here. I modified the stats a bit, and decided to dip into a few more classes, but at a lower level. This will allow a better spellcaster in the end. Since the specialist wizard's restricted school limitation is lifted for a character with levels in another spellcasting class, I thought the Transmuter to be a wonderful option, since they have a chance for a little bonus later on.

Character 3:
Aasimar Paladin2/MorninglordX (Currently Paladin2/Morninglord3)
This character is similar to the character #3 presented in the UPP here, except I chose a different deity for the cleric class. I like the idea of more of a spellcasting cleric, and Morninglords have great damage potential with their domain spells. Since heavy armor can be a real drag in the late stages, I might sprinkle in a few levels of Fighter and one of each Monk and Ranger very late in HoF (I know I'd be getting heavy XP penalties).

Character 4:
Aasimar Paladin2(or 3)/SorcererX (Currently Sorcerer5)
This is my bomber. This character will take his Paladin levels after he's learned Fireball. I'm dissapointed that I've started the Goblin Warrens (I'm actually about to enter) and he hasn't reached level 6 yet.

The four characters above I consider my "main characters." I wanted them to get a little XP boost over my "supporting cast" so I had them do the Prologue without the following two.

Character 5:
Deep Gnome Rogue2/IllusionistX (Currently Rogue 1/Illusionist2)
This is my thief. His job is to handle all of the locks and traps in the game, as well as identify all of the magical items I come across. I'll take that second Rogue level after my INT has gone up to 20 (more skills that way). I'm also considering adding a third Rogue level, and possibly sprinkling in some other classes, like a level of Cleric late (does that specialist wizard trick work if your WIS is too low to cast spells?), a level of Bard (to sing while not casting, or even some Fighter/Ranger/Barbarian levels to help out if this guy is cornered. If I do choose to sprinkle those classes in, it'll only be after reaching 20th level as an Illusionist. Edit: since this is total powergaming, I decided to add a level of Banite cleric in here. I'll get the WIS bonus twice, increasing my saving throws a lot, and allowing me to cast all arcane spells as well.

Character 6:
Male Drow Bard 11/Druid 19 (Currently Bard 4)
This is my real support guy. He's the diplomat of the group, maxing out all of the "talky skills" as I like to call them. His job is to sit there and sing, and with Lingering Song fire a few arrows or even cast a spell when the songs are active. I plan on advancing him to Bard 11, then squatting until I can get Druid 10, to lessen the XP penalties. From there, it's advancement as usual, with disregard to the XP penalties he's bound to get. Again, he's a support character who doesn't go near combat, so what's the big deal? I'm also considering going Bard 12/Druid 18, since his Saves will be slightly better, but I'm not sure.

I like this party a lot, because I don't have to really squat to make the party good. They're all races with an ECL penalty, so I should be a few levels lower than any challenge anyway. The characters who will get an XP penalty might get them very later in normal mode, but probably not until HoF mode, where I don't think it'll matter as much anyway.

Any tweaks I could make are greatly appreciated, as are comments (good or bad). I'm having a lot of fun so far, which is really the point when all is said and done.

[silverdragon72]

Character 1:
Male Drow Fighter4/Rogue3/Barbarian3/Wizard20 (Currently Rogue 2/Barbarian1/Fighter2)
This is a clone of the character #1 presented in the UPP stickied here. I modified the stats a little bit, starting with a higher INT (I figured that since I would need to improve it anyway, I may as well get the extra skill points), and dropped the starting STR. I love the idea of a character who is a tank in normal mode, and becomes a great wizard in HoF.

the idea behind this build was to have a most powerfull tank in HOF and not a caster!

He can do well as support caster in HOF:

- pre battle-buffing and
- first round casting (only spells with no save allowed!)

especially with the "caster only" self-buffs: MI, blink, blur, tensers and BBD this build is a melee killer in HOF!

...but always keep a healer close by, as you can't recast MI until tensers wears off!!!

.

[silverdragon72]

Character 2:
Female Drow Monk2/Rogue1/Fighter2/Ranger1/Transmuter5/Dreadmaster19 (Currently Monk2/Rogue1/Ranger1/Dreadmaster1)
This character is very similar to the character #2 in the UPP stickied here. I modified the stats a bit, and decided to dip into a few more classes, but at a lower level. This will allow a better spellcaster in the end. Since the specialist wizard's restricted school limitation is lifted for a character with levels in another spellcasting class, I thought the Transmuter to be a wonderful option, since they have a chance for a little bonus later on.

this build just needs MI, blink and blur from the arcane spell-book! Having a spec. wiz is a good option if you get access to these spells!

Dreadmaster 19 doesn't add something helpfull, I would also get rid of the 1 ranger level.

Seems good but: monk 3 - rogue 3 - fighter 4 is much better...

...as the sneak skills and the extra speed are just to good and you just loose 1 feat -2 (ranger) +1 (L4_fighter)!

.

[silverdragon72]

Character 3:
Aasimar Paladin2/MorninglordX (Currently Paladin2/Morninglord3)
This character is similar to the character #3 presented in the UPP here, except I chose a different deity for the cleric class. I like the idea of more of a spellcasting cleric, and Morninglords have great damage potential with their domain spells. Since heavy armor can be a real drag in the late stages, I might sprinkle in a few levels of Fighter and one of each Monk and Ranger very late in HoF (I know I'd be getting heavy XP penalties).

this one will get such a high WIS-boni later in the game that you really should go for the monk as early as your cleric-skills are good enough!

But keep in mind that damage based spells doesn't matter in HOF!

.

[silverdragon72]

Character 4:
Aasimar Paladin2(or 3)/SorcererX (Currently Sorcerer5)
This is my bomber. This character will take his Paladin levels after he's learned Fireball. I'm dissapointed that I've started the Goblin Warrens (I'm actually about to enter) and he hasn't reached level 6 yet.

Pal2 seems to be enough, if you really want to maximize powergaming you should think about adding a rogue level very late (as you find a CHA-increasing rogue-only item in HOF! and evasion is quite powerfull)

If you squat, don't squat this build!!! Should always be several levels higher as your average party level!

btw. I would start with Pal2 and then change to sorc - ok you will get slower access to spells, but there is more need for a good melee tank with several MI available (golems!), then having a few FB-spells! (PC 5 could close the "arcane gap" in the early game!)

.

[silverdragon72]

Character 5:
Deep Gnome Rogue2/IllusionistX (Currently Rogue 1/Illusionist2)
This is my thief. His job is to handle all of the locks and traps in the game, as well as identify all of the magical items I come across. I'll take that second Rogue level after my INT has gone up to 20 (more skills that way). I'm also considering adding a third Rogue level, and possibly sprinkling in some other classes, like a level of Cleric late (does that specialist wizard trick work if your WIS is too low to cast spells?), a level of Bard (to sing while not casting, or even some Fighter/Ranger/Barbarian levels to help out if this guy is cornered. If I do choose to sprinkle those classes in, it'll only be after reaching 20th level as an Illusionist. Edit: since this is total powergaming, I decided to add a level of Banite cleric in here. I'll get the WIS bonus twice, increasing my saving throws a lot, and allowing me to cast all arcane spells as well.

after several tries I ended in having an inverse build of PC1 for this one!

...as all other arcane casters get quite slow access to spells, this build should close the "arcane gap" in the early game! (mass haste & FB)

1L rogue, then pure wiz until your sorc comes up!

In this case I wouldn't take a spec as this build should have a maximum access to different spells your sorc won't get!

.

[silverdragon72]

Character 6:
Male Drow Bard 11/Druid 19 (Currently Bard 4)
This is my real support guy. He's the diplomat of the group, maxing out all of the "talky skills" as I like to call them. His job is to sit there and sing, and with Lingering Song fire a few arrows or even cast a spell when the songs are active. I plan on advancing him to Bard 11, then squatting until I can get Druid 10, to lessen the XP penalties. From there, it's advancement as usual, with disregard to the XP penalties he's bound to get. Again, he's a support character who doesn't go near combat, so what's the big deal? I'm also considering going Bard 12/Druid 18, since his Saves will be slightly better, but I'm not sure.

...even with lower stats (as you still have enough to get the stats you need) and no SR (just use a spell instead) I would prefer a human build here!

The EXP-penalty slows you down to much in HOF!

.

[Aerich]

Just a note on Char 5 - it has to be an illusionist instead of a wizard because the deep gnome's favoured class is illusionist.

[silverdragon72]

Just a note on Char 5 - it has to be an illusionist instead of a wizard because the deep gnome's favoured class is illusionist.

therefore I wouldn't take a DG, better a Tiefling or a Drow (m)!

The main idea of a back-up caster is, to get access to all the spells your sorc doesn't get!

.

[Crucis]

therefore I wouldn't take a DG, better a Tiefling or a Drow (m)!

The main idea of a back-up caster is, to get access to all the spells your doesn't get!

.

For many people, this is true. We had a pretty lively debate about backup mages over at Sorc's Plate a couple weeks back. Some people espouse this theory of the backup mage, while others simply cannot imagine taking a wizzy school that would prevent you from having all the same nuking spells as your primary mage (probably a sorc).

I realize that this is a UPP thread, so the question may be moot. But I think that for the purposes of good roleplaying and a good challenge, people playing a party with a backup mage should seriously consider taking a specialist wizard from a school like conjurer that may not have all the "best" evocation nuking options. Do it for the challenge of playing a (secondary) mage that isn't merely a nuker. (I've had a person tell me that they've even tried playing parties without a nuker and going with a bard as the primary mage for the challenge.) And the upside of doing with a secondary mage is that you still have your tried and true sorc-nuker. A non-nuking specialist mage will let you try out new and different spell combos.

[Jelaweb]

Character 1:
Male Drow Fighter4/Rogue3/Barbarian3/Wizard20 (Currently Rogue 2/Barbarian1/Fighter2)

I had a similar-but-different character in a 2-drow party:
Female Drow Fighter 4 / Rogue 3 / Monk 3 / Demarch of Mask 20

She was a WIS orientated, damaging tank, with a high AC. By a bit of stupidity on my part, I ended normal mode with only 10 cleric levels. If you are serious about your wizard levels, make sure you can at least cast a needed wizard spell by the end of normal mode, instead of ploughing all your level-ups into the other classes first.

Character 2:
Female Drow Monk2/Rogue1/Fighter2/Ranger1/Transmuter5/Dreadmaster19 (Currently Monk2/Rogue1/Ranger1/Dreadmaster1)

If this character is not a high-AC build, lose the rogue level. With 2 free feats for the transmuter levels, and 2 free feats from the fighter levels, you can probably afford to drop the Ranger level, if the plan is dual-wielding.

Character 3:
Aasimar Paladin2/MorninglordX (Currently Paladin2/Morninglord3)

A couple of fighter levels may be good, for the 2 extra feats, although you will get a multi-classing penalty. But the best buff this character will have is DUHM, so try to multi-class so you have either 24 or 27 cleric levels.

Character 4:
Character 5:

Sorry, but yawn. They may be great characters for most people, but I try to avoid them. My sorcerers usually stay out of the action, and don't require "extra" saving throw points, as they rarely have spells cast upon them. And my arcane casters don't need any rogue-ish skills either - Knock and a high STR "lock basher" do most jobs...
(a high AC character may have Expertise, which requires 13 INT - and with the rogue-only AC item, why not put any remaining rogue skills into this character instead?)

Character 6:
Male Drow Bard 11/Druid 19 (Currently Bard 4)

Won't really kill much. I have tried a similar character - it is fun! There are so many different tactics with this character - not the predictable "blast (caster) or batter (tank)". As a result, the 11 bard levels is NOT a must - as I have found, there are several other things this character can do without singing "War Chant of the Sith" all the time - otherwise why even bother adding the druid levels?
(although the WCotS song's regeneration was a godsend when I got it for my Druid/Bard character. Choosing a decent druid level first meant I only got this by the ice temple in HoF mode!)

As for Bards, and Crucis's comment - that would be me (under a "pseudonym" here!). My current party has a Bard as the main caster. What it teaches you is that you really need to have a good tank and a high AC decoy, because, in HoF mode, you otherwise won't survive too long without non-existent "blasting" spells.

[Klorox]

FYI, I abandoned this party a while ago.

[silverdragon72]

FYI, I abandoned this party a while ago.

...why did you abandon it and what is your actual party?

.

[Crucis]

FYI, I abandoned this party a while ago.

I guess it wasn't such an ultimate powergaming party after all.

[Klorox]

I guess it wasn't such an ultimate powergaming party after all.

LOL, guess not.

SD: I got kinda bored with it... I also always favor smaller parties in my other games (I just think it's easier to keep track of 3 or 4 characters, it's not a power thing). I'm trying to put together a great 4 man team who can handle both regular and HoF modes. One thing I'm aiming towards is everybody having MR (which means Drow or Svirfneblin, which should work the way XP is calculated in this game).

I'll have a party posted by Friday (my goal anyway).

[Crucis]

I also always favor smaller parties in my other games (I just think it's easier to keep track of 3 or 4 characters, it's not a power thing). I'm trying to put together a great 4 man team who can handle both regular and HoF modes.

I guess that it's definitely a case of different strokes for different folks. I get bored with smaller parties and always find myself looking to fill out the party.
And I have never had the slightest, tiniest problem managing a 6 character party, and I never, ever use computer AI. I'm happiest when I'm controlling every member of my party.

I think that I once played a 4 person party up thru the Ice Temple. By the time I got to the Wandering Village, I added in 2 new characters cuz I just couldn't stand not having a full party.

Oh well. Different strokes for different folks.

[kmonster]

I also prefer bigger parties, at least for the first runthrough.
The games were designed for 6 person parties and you can only be sure that you've experienced the original feeling if you play a party of 6.
I also want to get the most of my first playthrough and even with 6 characters you can't get everything.

Unlike crucis I often use the computer AI (not for spellcasting however). It somehow gives the feeling of guiding living creatures instead of shifting chess pieces around. I somehow like to let the battle flow and being surprised what comes out next. The IWD2 scripts are quite well made, especially the bard script doesn't need much interrupting, it is a nice surprise when enemies suddenly stop attacking without you having done anything to stop them in their tracks.

In 2e games smaller parties levelled faster and you therefore got too powerful too fast (like getting able to just turn the undead on Burial Isle in the hardest part of HoW instead of facing the challenge).

Luckily this is different in IWD2. The main difference between a 4 and 6 person party is that you get get 0 fighting XP more often.

[Crucis]

K, I suppose that controlling your entire party can feel like moving chess pieces. But I feel like that's a good thing. I don't want to just sit back and watch a battle take place like I was watching some movie. I want to play the game, to control my party.

Again, different strokes.

[Klorox]

I don't use AI, but I do hate the poor pathfinding. A smaller party makes it more managable.

BTW, when I used to play PnP D&D, if we had 4 players, it was a lot!

[Klorox]

With all the troubles I've run into lately, I think I'm going to "KISS" and take a similar group as this one back in.

Character 1 will now be a Deep Gnome. I'm very interested in haveing an AC 72 decoy type, and the Drow can't reach that.

Character 2 will be very similar to what I had listed above: Female Drow LN Ftr2/Rog1/Rng1/Monk1/Dreadmistress20/Transmuter5 (Transmuter 3-5 taken last).

Character 3 will be essentially the same. An Aasimar Pal2/MorninglordX

Character 4 will be an Aasimar Pal2/SorcX. I won't take the Paladin levels until chapter 2 or 3 (maybe even later).

Character 5 will be a Male Drow Rogue 1 (or 2)/Diviner X. I might change the specialty, but I'm pretty sure the Illusionist (char 1) and Diviner cover each others "lost schools". This tyoe of character has been detailed many times in the past as a great arcane caster and as being able to cover all of the thieving duties.

Character 6 will be my Bard/Druid. I'm going to go the diplomat route here, make the character a Human, and probably add him a little later in the game (so the others can climb up a few levels faster). Maybe after the prologue, or even the start of chapter 2. He'll climb to Bard 5 (luck song), and then concentrate on Druid for a long time.

I got pretty far the first time I tried this one out, and had more fun than banging my head against the wall the past few weeks with these other parties. I'm going to give it a shot!