Of Thieves and Vampires, prior chapter 2 (spoilers for some, perhaps)

Anara · Post by **Anara** » Sat Apr 21, 2007 7:55 pm

I recently started playing Baldur's Gate II again after a long time absence from the game (after importing my character from Baldur's Gate I), and found that I perhaps had to restart my campaign, in order to get the offer from Bodhi (and her messenger).

Here is my difficulty; when I first arrive at the Athlaka Slums, I'm approached by Gaelan Bayle (spelling?), with an offer to join the thieves (or at least be associated with them in some manner; the 20,000 gold pieces for information and all). No matter what choices I make in the conversation, I still end up making the deal with him (and thus starting chapter 2).

Does this choice prevent one from joining with the vampires at this early stage? I never brought him any money, though I did gain access to the Shadow Thieves Guild, and could collect some quests there.

Is it even possible to NOT have that conversation with Bayle? The reason I ask this is because I never seemed to get any messenger from Bodhi (though I did stumbled upon some vampires at night time once in a while; they did not hurt me and said I still had a choice...)

In short, when does it become impossible to side with Bodhi at this point? (which is what I want, to be sure...As I recall, one does get the opportunity to kill the vampires in chapter 6 or so anyway...)

First post by the way, so please be nice

fable · Post by **fable** » Sat Apr 21, 2007 8:10 pm

prevent one from joining with the vampires at this early stage? I never brought him any money, though I did gain access to the Shadow Thieves Guild, and could collect some quests there.

No. You didn't seal any deal with them. That doesn't happen until you pay the Shadow Thieves.

Is it even possible to NOT have that conversation with Bayle? The reason I ask this is because I never seemed to get any messenger from Bodhi (though I did stumbled upon some vampires at night time once in a while; they did not hurt me and said I still had a choice...)

You really need to go through that dialog. It's essential for the progress of the game. Whether you do it then or later, it shouldn't be avoided.

In short, when does it become impossible to side with Bodhi at this point? (which is what I want, to be sure...As I recall, one does get the opportunity to kill the vampires in chapter 6 or so anyway...)

SPOILER, highlight to read:

Spoiler

It becomes impossible to side with Bodhi if you ignore her offer through a servant to meet with her in the graveyard, or you meet with her, and turn down her offer.

Anara · Post by **Anara** » Sat Apr 21, 2007 8:27 pm

Thank you fable.

Does this mean that I could complete the quests at the Shadow Thieves guild without fear of retribution from the vampires? - not counting those you gain access to after paying them, of course...

I'm sorry if it's a silly question, but it seemed to take forever for a messenger from the Bodhi side to approach me...I walked around in several areas at night time - with quite a few encounters from the vampires, but no messenger, so I thought I had missed my chance...ah well...guess I shouldn't have restarted my campaign then...

Anyway, I thank you for your help, fable...I think i got my answer

fable · Post by **fable** » Sat Apr 21, 2007 8:33 pm

Anara wrote:Does this mean that I could complete the quests at the Shadow Thieves guild without fear of retribution from the vampires? - not counting those you gain access to after paying them, of course...

Oh, if you side with the Shadow Thieves, you can most certainly expect retribution. There's a war in progress between the two, you see. And you must choose sides.

I'm sorry if it's a silly question, but it seemed to take forever for a messenger from the Bodhi side to approach me...I walked around in several areas at night time - with quite a few encounters from the vampires, but no messenger, so I thought I had missed my chance...ah well...guess I shouldn't have restarted my campaign then...

You need 15,000 gold pieces before Bodhi will send somebody to meet with you. Note, you don't have to make your choice immediately--in fact, you shouldn't, since the Shadow Thieves, who watch for such things, might be inclined to sweeten the deal just a bit now that they know they have competition.

Hope that helps!

Anara · Post by **Anara** » Sat Apr 21, 2007 8:49 pm

Thanks again

Oh yes, I know that you'll get in trouble with the other faction when choosing sides, but I meant the quests surrounding Bloodscalp, Mae'var (spelling?) and Edwin; could one complete those without the other side taking offense?

I'm not sure if doing those quests does any harm whatsoever to the Vampires...though of course one could argue, that any disturbance in the Thieves' Guild is in favor of Bodhi; and my removal of this disturbance could be taken as a slight

I'm not talking about that area in the Guild you gain access to after getting the key from Bayle, and the quests offered there.

fable · Post by **fable** » Sat Apr 21, 2007 8:55 pm

Anara wrote:Oh yes, I know that you'll get in trouble with the other faction when choosing sides, but I meant the quests surrounding Bloodscalp, Mae'var (spelling?) and Edwin; could one complete those without the other side taking offense?

Yes. Those do not interfere with the availability of the main choice.

I'm not sure if doing those quests does any harm whatsoever to the Vampires...though of course one could argue, that any disturbance in the Thieves' Guild is in favor of Bodhi; and my removal of this disturbance could be taken as a slight

Except that Bodhi's mind works in strange ways. She may be feeling that the new Thieves Guild leader is getting a bit too powerful; or that you need to be tested; or that nobody else really matters, as long as she gets to toy with more human beings. Or any of the above. Bodhi really doesn't have much in the way of connection to any creature save herself, does she?

Anara · Post by **Anara** » Sat Apr 21, 2007 9:11 pm

Thank you, fable...I got my answers

...very quick replies, I might add; I appreciate that as well.

Interesting notion about Bodhi's mind, by the way...I'm looking forward to meeting her; cannot remember how she's like, I must admit...

Aye...it's been too long since I played this game

fable · Post by **fable** » Sat Apr 21, 2007 9:12 pm

Glad to help.

It is a great game, isn't it? And the BG community is a wonderful resource, too. All the mods have kept the game fresh, even for frequent players such as myself. Enjoy yourself! And if you have any other questions, someone's usually around to help out.

Ian Kognitow · Post by **Ian Kognitow** » Sun Apr 22, 2007 12:03 pm

Though it may not be applicable in your case, it is also impossible to side with Bodhi if your PC is a thief. Bodhi will inherently distrust you even if you're more than happy to kill off the Thieves guild.

Anara · Post by **Anara** » Sun Apr 22, 2007 6:42 pm

Oh, but I'm a Ranger, so I guess I shouldn't have anything to worry about on that account...

The interesting thing for me now, I think (and this is also discussed in another thread, so I won't indulge in it too much), is how my character would react towards Bodhi, roleplaying-wise that is, not to mention the opinion of my party members...

I'm a Neutral Good character myself, though I could swear I started out as Chaotic Good in BG 1. I must have changed it somewhow, through my actions or whatever...

Still, it might still be possible to explain why a person with a Neutral Good alignment would choose to work with Bodhi instead of the Thieves, I suppose...I'll work on it!

Just a couple other questions related to the subject matter then: to gather the sufficient gold to pay the vampires, I plan to do both the d'Arnise Keep quest, and the Umar Hills quests (I'm a Ranger afterall), in chapter 2. I know I'll probably have the gold just after doing one of them, but I want to do them both before chapter 3 starts...though Windspear Hills is also an option, I guess...

Here is my concern then: if I return from one of these places (with the sufficient gold, of course), and I'm approached by one of Bodhi's messengers, and then choose to leave for Umar Hills, will I be too late to the meeting that I agreed upon?

((sorry for that last sentence, by the way...it's not particularly well structured, is it?))
Well, English is not my first language after all

BlueSky · Post by **BlueSky** » Sun Apr 22, 2007 6:49 pm

No need for apologies...

Lobster · Post by **Lobster** » Sun Apr 22, 2007 8:16 pm

Anara wrote:Here is my concern then: if I return from one of these places (with the sufficient gold, of course), and I'm approached by one of Bodhi's messengers, and then choose to leave for Umar Hills, will I be too late to the meeting that I agreed upon?

As long as you haven't already given the gold to Gaelen, or killed any vampires on the streets, you should still be able to have the meeting with Bodhi - just make sure that you visit the graveyard during the night.

fable · Post by **fable** » Sun Apr 22, 2007 9:04 pm

And don't wait too long, after she asks you to meet her. I remember seeing that Bodhi allows you a grace period of 3 nights, before she interprets a no show as no deal.

Anara · Post by **Anara** » Mon Apr 23, 2007 12:11 am

Alright, thanks for telling me that!

I actually got enough gold after killing Mae'Var for Bloodscalp, so I got the offer from Bodhi's messenger. I had planned to go to d'Arnise Keep from this point...I just purchased a fair amount of equipment, though...perhaps I can make it to the Keep and back before the time limit runs out, eh?

Or, I could go back to an earlier save perhaps, and then just seal the deal right away...hmm, I must ponder this.

fable · Post by **fable** » Mon Apr 23, 2007 5:49 am

Remember, the time spent getting to and returning from the Keep needs to be factored in, along with any sleeping you do to heal and relearn spells.

Anara · Post by **Anara** » Mon Apr 23, 2007 7:33 am

That's true enough...I've got an earlier save right before I show the crucial evidence against Mae'Var to Bloodscalp, so it's not like I need to play through a lot of areas again, if I choose this direction...

It would be annoying, if, when I return victorious from the d'Narnise Keep, only to find that Bodhi lost her patience. I wouldn't want to upset a vampire, now would I?

By the way, I've always wanted to write these adventures down somehow (not only from Shadows of Amn, but the whole saga). I like to think that I'm an able writer myself, so perhaps if I could provide a link along with my posts; is this allowed? I think it's DragonWench or some other that has done something similar. This would be developed as I play through the game of course...

Anyway, I really should be studying, not playing games and visit game forums!

...I almost didn't make it last semester...

fable · Post by **fable** » Mon Apr 23, 2007 3:53 pm

Anara wrote:By the way, I've always wanted to write these adventures down somehow (not only from Shadows of Amn, but the whole saga). I like to think that I'm an able writer myself, so perhaps if I could provide a link along with my posts; is this allowed? I think it's DragonWench or some other that has done something similar. This would be developed as I play through the game of course...

We actually have a board area for fanfiction, right here. That would include your character's roleplayed run-through of the game, so if you want to copy it to that linked forum, that's fine.

Anara · Post by **Anara** » Mon Apr 23, 2007 4:12 pm

Thanks for the link! I'll be sure to check it out.

And for helping out in general