total newbie, it's possible a "tactical fighter"

[kaizen]

Hi, I've discovered this promissing game. My dream in RPG games is to made a "tactical fighter" with dual weapons: a juggler fighter that rely more in his hability to avoid the blow rather than his shield.

Searching in this web I founded three classes:

• Fighter - Samurai - Hatamoto
• Rogue - Budoka - Ninja Lord
• Adept - Monk - Shaloei Master

My questions:

• I could finish the game with it?
• Dual weapons are effective? And avoid blows with agility?
• Which is the easiest to sart? Some guide to make one? (skills, atributes,...)

Thanks & regards.

[swcarter]

Dual weapons are fun. I don't know if you'll be able to avoid blows, but you'll certainly be able to dish out damage faster than your enemies. For that route I'd recommend you take fighter->marauder->deathlord as three of your five classes.

SWC

[kaizen]

Ok, thanks by your reply.

[Scottg]

Hi, I've discovered this promissing game. My dream in RPG games is to made a "tactical fighter" with dual weapons: a juggler fighter that rely more in his hability to avoid the blow rather than his shield.

Searching in this web I founded three classes:

• Fighter - Samurai - Hatamoto
• Rogue - Budoka - Ninja Lord
• Adept - Monk - Shaloei Master

My questions:

• I could finish the game with it?
• Dual weapons are effective? And avoid blows with agility?
• Which is the easiest to sart? Some guide to make one? (skills, atributes,...)

Thanks & regards.

Dual weapons are purely offensive - the BEST in the game. However it isn't a "tactical fighter", it more of a wade-in and cut everything up sort of fighter. Ninjitsu combines these elements (to a degree), however..

IMO the best tactical *melee* fighter is one that wields a staff/pole arm (and it also has the most interesting combat motions as well).

With such a character you have greater "reach" and your opponents need to get closer to you to hit you. This gives you a defensive advantage, and there are also moves that allow you to even defensivly "fend" off a group of attackers.

You can improve this further with the "LORD" final 3rd level class - it has both the diabolic skill CRUSHING BLOW (with heavy weapons - polearms) & a heraldry that provides 20 percent damage reduction.

Note that the skill "Heavy Pole Weapons" is ONLY available to either the 2nd tier rouge class HUNTER or the 2nd tier sisterhood class Valkyrie. (..the IMPERIAL is blocked-out because you will "use-up" your fighter based class with KNIGHT to latter progress to LORD.)

GO the SISTERHOOD route.. because:

You can improve on this further by utilizing a female character which allows for the heraldry "The Protector" which gives another 10 percent damage reduction. Additionally, the Valkyrie class quest provides one of the better weapons in the game *early-on* AND it is a heavy polearm "Winged Destroyer". Additionally, a 2nd tier Sisterhood class is the only way to receive the +20 percent damage bracer.

Additionally, because you have a female character - choose HUMAN (..which is vastly superior for combat in comparison to a female elf).

Finally, you should concentrate on the skills Parry, and Heavy Armor - and of course Heavy Pole Weapons.

Note that of the heavy polearms listed here:

http://www.gamebanshee.com/dungeonlords ... learms.php

Only the Angelic Destroyer is better than the Winged Destroyer, and thats largely because it offers the "Invoke Divine Intervention" (..which you can't get as a spell with this class progression). Its only available latter in the game in the Tomb of Souls - and only if you select "weapons" instead of "magic" (when offered the opportunity). (note that the Scythe of Winter and the Soul Harvester are not available at all and the Staff of the Magus is a LIGHT POLE.)

That means your classes are as follows:

3rd Tier: Lord
2nd Tier: Knight, Valkyrie
1st Tier: Fighter.. AND..

Adept, Mage, or "Rouge".. SKIP the Rogue. Though I don't remember, but IF you can only get access to the spell Whirlwind, (ask others), through the mage class - then I would take the Mage as my second 1st Tier class.. (That particular spell is just too useful throughout the game, especially against really difficult opponents (and even the final boss).)

You can finish the game with such a character - and even thrive throughout most of it. The most difficult however will be final boss (a VERY long way off), and even then - you can still "bone-up" your character's magical attacks throughout the game for that last fight.

As far as skills and attributes..

spend the points on attributes, particularly Strength (to bash chests), and increase damage. The other attributes are also important, just not quite as important. (..crank up your strength to 35-40 early-on.) I'd list Vitality and Agility as secondary.

Skills - only place points in them when you really need them, and try not to place points in them until you have as many learning bonuses as possible (practically speaking) for that character. Learning bonuses make it MUCH "cheaper" to spend points for a particular skill. Also Intelligence points decrease the "cost" of skill points, but beyond about 45 points in intelligence, you start to run-into serious diminishing returns.

Finally - Yes, it should be an easy character - start with the Fighter Tier 1 class for the easiest time (..provided you collect and use your healing potions wisely). IF go the mage route - then you might consider selecting it first and placing one point only in magic weapons skill and using a collected goblin staff to exceptional effect early in the game.

[ywou whou]

tactical fighter

may have seen my rambling post earlier, but i found a very good combo which doesnt appear if u just look at base set ups. must have collectors eddition(1,5) but other than that dont see any other problems with it. as other say long weapons gice u nice range attack, for fending off some monsters (ie valkyrie skill:and u get nice pole from the quest to get valkyrie as it is)but dual weild does the same thing if not better, especially with mutiple mobs. u are covering both sides of you with weapons. oh btw i started rogue(never want to miss any loot) and that gives u stealth also so if yah summon mobs at all or someone else around that will go after them first usually.then joined fighters guild in fargrove. did quests to leave fargrove. completed fighter quest and sisterhood quest, came back as a valkyrie and went to slums in fargrove to do thieves guild quest and then went to skuldoom and got my heldrary from it.then finished all mini quest before i talked to eastern guild house. when doing it this way u got free rain of a lot of areas, just have to watch where u go early on so they dont lock fargrove on u before yah want them to.several things will lock fargrove from what ive seen. 1 start the eastern guild quest for progression. 2 get in the fight by talendoor with the named captain 3 get a moon stone. those are the 3 things i have found so far that will lock fargrove, maybe more. but then i went and quested for samuri got my dual weild, as soon as i got far enough in progression to get to forbidden lands i went to staroxia and got quest from her, hit the shadow ruins and went and fought dracolich for shadowlord class.

so my class where fighter rogue samuri valkyrie shadowlord

you want a tactical fighter, this in my opion is best combo ive seen
1 valkyrie give u haevypole when u want a little more range on your opponents
2 samuri give u dual weild when u have lots of guys or just want to do damage fast, plus critcal strike for extend damage voer time.
3 thief give u stealth so mobs focus on others before u.
4 shadowlord give u magic weaponry, plus the ability to be immune from just about all magic for short durations.

hope that helps you. and have fun

the shaman

[Scottg]

Shaman - it an interesting combo..

One point though -

1st tier Rouge is (over all) a suboptimal inclusion.

You can bash chests to open them.. so you aren't missing out on treasure. And as far as sneak is concerned - the Shadow Lord has that skill as well (..the difference being that you will have to wait the additional time to get sneak).

Still - its interesting.

[ywou whou]

interesting combo

i like rogue early on because bash doesnt really become effective tell u get really high str.if u got the rogue skills early then u never miss out on loot and have to go back thru, plus rogue get identify and repair right away. dumped my piont into intel also early, dont waste any pionts on weapon skills other then what u need tell u get fighter which isnt very far along.

he said tactical fighter, and that obviously in my opion means tactics, this gives u a very wide array of choices to work with. using shadowlord ability in naga temple at lvl4 i was able to take down naga queen before it wore off, remeber shadow lord ability allows u to lev also so u are right next to her , with dual weild i was using rune mace from mog primary and kama of flame secondary(got in naga temple). also have eleven darkblade from shadow realm, but kama of flame is more damage when firestrike is added, use dark blade for all the little guys thou for the extra reach.

at lvl 6 shadowlord skill in tomb of souls(tos for now on) i was able to take out voratugg in one usage. early demon that you use demon key to i got about 2/3 dead before it wore off, but with the dual weild i was able to keep it reeling so badly for most the time that it was only able to summon 1 demon to aided it entire fight. although i was also using kama of the void which i had gotten earlier in the dungeon. got me a katana of the sun in tos also so now using katana 8-22 damage primary, kama of the void 8-14 damage secondary.
i have angelic destroyer now also. looking for a really good weapon that can go in primary thou, so far havent found a heavy weapon with better damage then katana of sun, or tot rune mace that can be dual weilded. but have the druid temple still to do.

but u are exactly right thou on skill pionts early on use them for attribute not skills, by time i turned in my first relic i had a 75 int and all my other stats where near 50, low ones being str and vitality, the more int u have before u purchase anything the cheaper it is to buy, so in my opion first stat u should work on is int.

hope that helps
enjoy the game and have fun

the shaman

[Scottg]

I started looking through the classes again..

Even with a human female, and consistently "upping" strength - you can bash any chest successfully at almost any time in the game. It depends on how you play the character. More over - JUST a rogue only gives you 1 learning bonus to disarm traps and pick locks.. thats a VERY high price to pay for one learning bonus (in each general skill).

I also went through your build and the class selections.

A stronger overall character can be created by selecting the Marauder class rather then the Samurai. This provides access to heavy armor, weapons, and shields - AND dual wielding light weapons. There are only 2 real penalties to this:

1. No Inflict Wounds Diabolic Skill, which is a marginal skill (because the effects don't stack with every hit - i.e. it acts like poison), and because like any specialized skill its tough to increase because it has no learning bonus.

2. No "The Master" heraldry, UNLESS you choose another eastern path (which is effectively "wide-open" now). And note: (for those who haven't played with a 2nd tier eastern class - this double damage heraldry is one of the better bonuses in the game.)

The "up-shot" to this is:

1. An earlier path to stealth IF you don't want ANY rogue based class (..in that the Marauder has stealth as well.)

2. The ability to focus on any magical based class structure to improve magical attacks and defenses OR,

3. The ability to further both magical skills (to a lesser extent), AND acquire more learning bonuses for things like Heavy Armor or Heavy Weapons.

As an example:

1st tier Fighter: up strength throughout the sewers until at least 35.
1st tier Adept: gives Magic Weaponry early on, but more importantly gives access to this class grouping and also provides a learning bonus in Celestial Magic.
2nd tier Marauder: Gives access to Heavy Weapons and Armor, Dual-wield light weapons, and Sneak.
2nd tier Paladin or Monk.
2nd tier Paladin: doubles up the Armor and Weapons learning bonuses that the Marauder class provides, AND unlocks the extremely useful skill "Channel" (in addition to the Rune Magic learning bonus). Note that basically its a "Valkyrie" open to any race/sex and trades access to Heavy Pole arms for Channel - which is a bargain considering that dual-wielding makes pole wielding a moot point.
2nd tier Monk: provides the eastern class access to "The Master" heraldry, gives you learning bonus to Rune Magic AND Celestial Magic, provides access to Channel, and gives you a learning bonus in Athletics. This class ALSO provides access to the Winter Shuriken relatively early in the game (..if you are careful).

Note that the Adept class route opens up access to the extremely powerful Divine Intervention spell summon (..easily the most powerful in the game).

[ywou whou]

suboptimal

in my opion its more in the way we like to play early on and what u want to focus on, u like str early on, and as a female charecter that is about the hardest to raise, i like int early on . i had 47 int after killing the first troll.

both paths work, and different gear available thru both progresions. ie u can only get the 20% damage (from bracer)mod from the sisterhood. where as learning bonus in weapons early on help u get them easier int does the same thing.

but i like the class set up u came up with, and even with dual weild some time u want the extra length of attack a heavy pole weapon can provide. but after u get dual weild 95% of the time u will be using it.

will probably try your set up next time thru , it has possabilities. there is no one right way in this game , its more a matter of styles.playing female elf early on i focused more on int, is cheaper to raise then str and lowers all my cost on future skills, havent really tried the bash method on chest but with rogue skills early on dont need to, although after i had samuri and valkrie and the skills to use all my weapons, i focused on thieves skills, takes a lot of xp to raise thieves skills that way, especially when u want to get lvl 12 in them so u can open mog quest chest, but crystal of time helps out also. maybe if i spent the piont in str rather then thieve skills would of been easier.

so depends on what u want to focus on, every class has its advantages, i will try it your way with next charecter ; but its like the old saying goes. theres more then 1 way to skin a cat. both set ups look good to me.

as ever have fun with the game

the shaman

[Scottg]

so depends on what u want to focus on, every class has its advantages, i will try it your way with next charecter ; but its like the old saying goes. theres more then 1 way to skin a cat. both set ups look good to me.

as ever have fun with the game

the shaman

I very much agree! And your character does seem to be both formidable AND interesting.

In fact its so interesting I'm also thinking of an alternative of it to play through again.

Last game through I "optimized" an "ultimate" character - one that would do *everything* well. (Adept/Mage/Valkyrie/Monk/Shaolei Master) It took a LOT of leveling to do (especially to reach a native 14 in Critical Strike - which took many millions of advancement points alone).

What I found disappointing though was that the character had a "split" personality. First half of game - warrior (eeking out an existence). Second half of game - magic user (dominating), switching to melee when the mood would "strike". With magic in the second half the game was pretty easy (to easy, even on the most difficult setting). Moreover the final boss (without performing a certain nameless task), was un"killable" without magic by my character. (..and even with magic I dropped "god" on that bad boy via something like 20 lightning strikes and 20 whirlwinds, +,+,+.)

Anyway - what I'd like to do this time is something DIFFERENT.

Virtually no magic spells - exceptions are:

1. Elemental protection spells/scrolls.
2. Summons (Nether only).
3. Nether spell Poison Cloud (basic tear gas with minor damage).
4. Time (which isn't really offensive or defensive and seems almost mandatory for the jumping puzzle).

Like the previous "ultimate" character I'd also like a "killer app" function. In that last character it was Critical Strike (which isn't very good at even level 19 against tough opponents).

A Shadow Lord seems to be the ticket for the 3rd tier class, with the short term magic immunity. From there all we have to do is kill the offending opponent *quickly*.

So for the "killer app" this time my thinking is a combination of stealth, summons, and BACKSTAB.

This begs the question: does backstab (at a fairly high level) work against the most difficult opponents? Don't know. Does anyone?

Class structure: Fighter/Rogue/Marauder/Budoka/Shadowlord.

Why each?

Fighter/Marauder gives the previously mentioned Heavy Armor and Weapons with Light dual-wield. It also gives the +10 damage heraldry.

Rogue/Budoka gives access to sneak and backstab with 2 learning bonuses - allowing a higher obtainable level in each (which is quite unlike critical strike or inflict wounds that have no learning bonus). It also gives the double damage heraldry.

Shadowlord provides that occasional immunity to magic. It also gives one more learning bonus to sneak - and "tops of the tank" with access AND a learning bonus to magic weaponry, as well as a learning bonus to Nether magic.

Its actually pretty close to your class structure shaman. The major difference (beyond a self restricted use of spells) is ditching inflict wounds for backstab - which seems to fit perfectly with this thread i.e. a "tactical fighter". Hopefully not only will it work (at high levels) against the toughest opponents, but also increase the damage mightily in a short span of time - short enough for the Shadow Lord magic immunity not to expire.

If I play it I'll almost certainly import the No Dachi of Night (for the primary weapon as Kathy mentioned on the other thread) - at the beginning of the game (so that I have access to it), and not use it until the 2nd half of the game (after fargrove part deux).

[ywou whou]

good strategy

looks like a good combo set up.

as far as spells i use rune spells mainly on my guy, for stat increases and and such, anti magic shell, and rune strike early on.

as far as heals you get more then enough heal potions to get you thru entire game just from drops. cure pioson you may have to buy a few early but by time u get thru ulm wont need them anymore.

only spells and items i bought with this guy was potion of air for underwater chest, and rune magic and the fire and ice resist. other then getting my spell skill lvls to the required lvl for classes i never spent any pionts on them.oh and bought 1 time crystal.i do have 33 fireballs and like 20 some magic missiles but those where all drops from creatures. i dont use them unless i got an annoying mob on a hill side or something. have 3 novas which i use for the pesky bats and such.


as far as importing items, i try not to do that with any game. try to keep to date with current theme of game.but maybe someday, since looks like they took out the best weapons in ce.

make sure your sneak is fairly high thou when going after boss mobs, they tend to be able to see thru it.

also with shadowlord watch out for splash effect ie fireballs when they hit something. the fireball wont hit you but the splash will sometimes. dont know how well effect will work on final guy yet either. first time thru thou i pretty much tanked the guy down but did have to put a gas mask on. and that was without the ability

good luck and let me know how it works out

the shaman

[Scottg]

looks like a good combo set up.

as far as heals you get more then enough heal potions to get you thru entire game just from drops. cure pioson you may have to buy a few early but by time u get thru ulm wont need them anymore.

My technique here is leveling outside of the fargrove fighters guild. Put the difficulty on max, put the spawns on max, and equip a shuriken to use. When the thieves come - let the guards take care of them.. BUT make sure your shuriken hits each opponent at least once.. I usually constantly circle the "battle" - rapidly throwing the shuriken at the thieves.

Its a good leveling primer up to about character level 8 - 10. The drops of healing AND cure poison are MASSIVE and can often sustain you throughout the game without picking up any additional potions (..though the "greater heal" potions I always pick-up).

Good to know about secondary damage with a Shadowlord's special ability!

[kathycf]

Virtually no magic spells - exceptions are:

1. Elemental protection spells/scrolls.
2. Summons (Nether only).
3. Nether spell Poison Cloud (basic tear gas with minor damage).
4. Time (which isn't really offensive or defensive and seems almost mandatory for the jumping puzzle).

Not to intrude on your discussion, but a quick mention about the time crystals. They are very helpful for opening chests too...it makes the symbols go slower and it is a lot easier to open the chests up. Some very high level ones it won't make a lot of difference on, but works well with a disarm trap of three and chests up to about level 6 or 7. There isn't much that will help disarm a chest level of 9 or 10 with a disarm skill of three except raising the skill level. (if you choose not to go the bashing route).

[ywou whou]

crystal of time

yes i use crystal of time also when doing difficult chest . kinda refered to it a couple of post back. if u dont have enough skill, just slow everything down .works perfect.can usually do 2 chest with 1 time crystal also.


the shaman

[Scottg]

Just went through the game.. most of the way.

Staroxia wouldn't give me the option of becoming a shadow lord. Stupid twit (aka buggy piece of software).

Well I can't say much good about the combo..

Dual weapons IS excellent - and that is where the real power is. Additionally, that eastern heraldry "The Master" is excellent.

Now for the bad news:

Marauder does NOT receive a learning bonus to heavy armor. You can get as high as the black plate without spending a fortune in experience points. Perhaps even stretching it to level 8 for the belt, boots, and gauntlets of the death lord. But to get it no penalty requires a 12 in it and after level 8 you are anywhere between 2.5 million and 4 million (depending on average intelligence).. and thats just for level 9, level 10 it doubles, level 11 it doubles 10, etc..

Worse news:

Backstab also has NO learning bonus - while the guide on gamebanshee suggests that backstab is a thief skill, it is NOT. It specifically comes up as a diabolic skill. If that wasn't bad enough - it doesn't seem to work well, (not bad but not good either), particularly against large tough opponents (and many "bosses" are large).

And even more bad news:

Sneak doesn't work much at all against tougher opponents, even at high levels. I tried a few "bosses" with 10 in sneak and few troll summons - they were rarely occupied with the summons unless they happened to be right next to them AND the summons were between us. (..that sometimes allowed me to then circle around them and get at least one shot in the back of the boss.)

Overall I'm disappointed - if you want a "tactical fighter", go with my first suggestion.

If you want an extremely offensive character - go for the 3rd tier class that specializes in dual weapons: Death Lord. For even greater offensive melee capability - add the Monk to obtain several nice extras, particularly better summons and "The Master" heraldry plus another parry learning bonus. (..that combo would be like a heavy armored Hatamoto with considerably higher off-hand damage and minus the near useless critical strike skill.)

[kathycf]

It's helpful to consider which learning bonuses you get with each class, since they do stack with each other. Maruader gets a learning bonus in armor overall, as does fighter...but that is only two. The only way to get high levels in a skill *without* spending a fortune in points is with stacking learning bonuses and decent intelligence. Otherwise, as noted it is extremely costly.

Adding Adept as a core class is useful because they do get a learning bonus for armor, in addition to being able to use magic weaponry and have access to Guild only spells.

[Scottg]

It's helpful to consider which learning bonuses you get with each class, since they do stack with each other. Maruader gets a learning bonus in armor overall, as does fighter...but that is only two. The only way to get high levels in a skill *without* spending a fortune in points is with stacking learning bonuses and decent intelligence. Otherwise, as noted it is extremely costly.

Adding Adept as a core class is useful because they do get a learning bonus for armor, in addition to being able to use magic weaponry and have access to Guild only spells.

To all generally:

The CE manual has is correctly stated (for CE anyway):

Learning bonuses for armor and shields:

Adept: light and medium armor and shield learning bonus.
Fighter: dido
Marauder: dido
Valkyrie: light, medium, AND heavy armor and shield bonuses. (Paladin as well.)

About half of the *working*, (see the non-working spell list thread), and available Adept spells, most notably the more powerful spells, are not available unless you take an adept class. (..so definitely take Kathy's comment to heart!)

This is not entirely true for the Arcane class - there you CAN (assuming you are lucky or go "fishing") obtain most of the spells, unavailable for purchase, from chests/crates & barrels. (..and then of course sell that to a store and purchase it back in whatever quantity you want.) Note that I did find a Whirlwind via Emindor's cabinet (..in quantity its probably the most powerful spell in the game when used correctly).

[ywou whou]

some challenges

yes it has some challenges to it but u are right about it being somewhat buggy.

i had problems with staroxia until i read the walk thru for grabbing class closely, when u are with staroxia the second time to your quest window. i did this right next to her so as i knew she would see it, once u do that it updates her also and u can get shadowlord quest.

but as for other skills costing a pretty penny u are right, that is why i dumped a lot into int early on. there are probably much more effective uses of xp using class bonus; but i liked having winged destroyer early on and the special abilities later on.im working on getting the final xp so i can use shadow armor with out any penalties thou, got all my weapons done last lvl of armor thou is just under 3million xp pionts.

i havent had much chance to play this week thou with stampede in town and niece here to visit.

i have noticed thou that stun seem to work best , at least from weapons, from higher lvl guys going to try makin 1 with stunning blow.

using tot run mace and void kama i took out demon worth a million xp pionts in no time and he only was able to summon 1 demon to aid him entire time, and almost never hit me.started out with a fire shield on me when i went in room then when he knocked me back finally first time i hit my shadowlord ability and went and finished him off. no heals needed entire fight.

hope that helps

the shaman

[ywou whou]

new char

sigh guess i wont be able to be a shadowlord if i want crushing blow.

what im looking at for a charecter build thou is
- adept ,paladin ,crusader
-fighter, and either samuri or maruder for last spot

havent decided yet there, may save and try both thou, i know u get double damge with eastern guild 1, but not sure what ill get from fighter guild as i wasnt paying attention. plus i know get inflict wounds from samuri which is even ,more damage from little guys. personally i see ninjitsu as sub optimal, i love dual weild, ie the samuri or maruder.

we will see how it works, going to miss flying up to guys and way laying them thou right thru there spells.

the shaman

[Scottg]

sigh guess i wont be able to be a shadowlord if i want crushing blow.

what im looking at for a charecter build thou is
- adept ,paladin ,crusader
-fighter, and either samuri or maruder for last spot

havent decided yet there, may save and try both thou, i know u get double damge with eastern guild 1, but not sure what ill get from fighter guild as i wasnt paying attention. plus i know get inflict wounds from samuri which is even ,more damage from little guys. personally i see ninjitsu as sub optimal, i love dual weild, ie the samuri or maruder.

we will see how it works, going to miss flying up to guys and way laying them thou right thru there spells.

the shaman

I went back and looked at my save game before Staroxia and after the shadow realm.. The shadow amulet is identified but there is no "quest" section on the shadow amulet, nor does she have a "shadow amulet" dialog option.

After playing around with the various melee diabolic skills - IMO NONE really work *effectively* except for ninjutsu (..and that is more like an alternative melee method rather than an "add-on") Even crushing blow is overall a *weak* skill (..though it is perhaps one of the better diabolic melee skills). Most of the time its your choice of weapon that is providing that effect. For instance - Heavy Weapons can knock back and down opponents (without a special move). Add a high stun effect percentage to this and it works a LOT better than crushing blow. Add in a special attack - and the character starts looking pretty serious. (..crushing blow simply adds the "whip cream" topping to the "mix".)

The one quasi melee diabolic skill that DOES work well is drain life, BUT you need both a high magic weapon skill AND a high magic skill in that weapon's magical attack for it to work well. (Note that the War Witch does NOT get this ability.. just the Warlock and the Cabalist.)

Ninjutsu works VERY well - in fact its almost as powerful as dual-wielding. The problem is that it does NOT get a "magical weapon" bonus, nor is the damage quite as high as a *good* light dual wield. In fact - its even more offensive than a dual-wield character when considering effective attack methods. (..the most effective is driving hard at an opponent - hitting 3 times in rapid succession - and then pulling back, "rinse and repeat"). It epitomizes the "way of the tiger" - i.e. pouncing on an opponent, the pulling back and getting ready to pounce again.

Note that IF you go the Crusader route..

Both Paladin and Crusader give you learning bonuses to Heavy Armor - Thats enough for death lord plate. With this class combination the Marauder offers ONLY Sneak as a new a different skill set - AND without ANY learning bonus. Nor does the additional heraldry "pay off". Your first "fighter" heraldry should choose the +10 damage (..the only one thats decent after that is the bonus vs. undead - and as such its use is limited). So IMO choose the Samurai for this class combination. Note that with this class combination you'll have 3 learning bonuses to Parry (the highest you can achieve in any class combination).