Halfling Monk

SandStorm888 · Post by **SandStorm888** » Wed Oct 10, 2007 6:31 pm

Father I have to confess... I'm a chronic restarter.
I would like to pick a nice character and just end whole whole game with it. Since I bought this game a few weeks ago I made (few due lack of time) a warlock, 2 monks, a barbarian/frenzied barb, 2 wizards, a sorc, 3 fighter types and a ranger. I also somehow managed to get them all into Neverwinter (and around lvl 6).

I basicly would like some tips and feedback on a charcater I would like to play just for the fun. It's not the best build and also not very original but I think I will like it (finally) in the long run.

The character will be a halfing monk. This monk must at least have 13 strengh because I'm very in love with cleave and greatcleave. (crappy I can't multiclass to frenzied barb for supreme cleave

) Furthermore I guess it's just a mix between dex and wis. But how many in wich and why... (nice AC would be nice and has a higher priority then damage)
Also if you have a suggestion about strongheart or lightfoot, multiclass or even have a funny name or idea on what vocal to choose.
The whole idea is to roam around (I prefer alone and dispatch my party; too difficult?) and stand to any enemy and slowly pick them down as he stands mighty tall.

Might people wonder why to choose a halfling monk. Well, simply said because they rock! I love the sight of a little fella kicking tallfolk ass. It's get's even better when they're facing a dragon or any huge creature. Simply hilarious! :laugh:

Thanks in advance for any reply/tip/feedback.

PS: Excuse my french due to:
1) New to the forums
2) Very late here (Netherlands) and after a ong day of work

sun_facer · Post by **sun_facer** » Wed Oct 10, 2007 10:11 pm

Well, I believe many of us are chronic restarters.
I have exact same builds just because of background feat differences and looks. Petty, huh?

Anyway, I must commend you on getting the game right. You have a halfing because you love it. The drop from 2d10 (lvl20 for medium sizes) to 2d8 shouldnt matter if you are passionate about small monks.

Well done!

My advice, take power attack-->cleave (forget great cleave). You are not likely to get one hit kills with a monk anyway.
In fact, if you have a dex of 15 or more, you can save the power attack feat and take circle kick instead of cleave.

Both the stronghearts and light foots are good. So go ahead with either. If possible, try not to multiclass. Monks gain ALL the benefits from staying as a pure monk. And as a halfling, you will not have exp penalties.

Ripuanewhole · Post by **Ripuanewhole** » Thu Oct 11, 2007 12:54 am

Looks like sun_facer already answered most of your questions... speaking of chronic restarting, I restarted with the same character when I got to my castle and discovered that I had missed out on getting some Ore... pathetic.

Assuming you don't multiclass, than you will not be wearing any armer that would restrict your dexterity bonus. Since you don't plan on getting your strength any higher than 13 you will need Weapon Finesse so you can use your Dexterity modifier for melee attacks.

So, for every 2 points of Dexterity you get +1 AC, +1 AB attack, and +1 Reflex Save. For every 2 points of Wisdom you get +1 AC, and +1 Will Save.

Conclusion: Dexterity is better.

I'd go with Str=12(13), Dex=18(22), Con=12, Int=10, Wis=16, Cha=8

SandStorm888 · Post by **SandStorm888** » Thu Oct 11, 2007 4:30 am

First of all thanks for your (quick) replies. Thanks for complementing me on my choice. I see myself as a healthy balance between roleplaying and powergaming. So indeed I have chosen the lower damage for the sheer funfactor.

Good point about greatcleave and cleave (saves me another restart

). Sounds fair to put those feats into circle kick. I already thought of finesse but thanks for mentioning.

I have few questions btw:
1) (From powergaming view) Why should I invest into tumble when I can take spring attack as a feat.
2) At what lvls get halflings a feat? I never got to understand at what levels any race get feats. Except for fighters who get them at first, second, fourth etc.
3) I believe that dex is better for the AB. But why is dex better in AC bonus? Isn't it so that you always retain your wis bonus to AC while the dex bonus can be offset? (think of rogues or something)

I think I will choose strongheart race because I'm not running from anything like the puny lightfoot halflings (+ extra feat). As for stats when I'm not needing 13 str for cleave why should I ever even have str? It's a racial penalty for me so it could be better invested in wis/dex?
So I'm thinking about:
str=10 (perhaps 8?), dex=20, con=10 (higher?), int=10, wis=16 (as high as possible), cha=8

Any idea?

[EDIT]
I just wondered when characters gain an stat points and how many in the game?
Furthermore is it more fun to play evil or good in the game. I can play both sides well and enjoy both but perhaps one has a more rewarding end(scene)?

sun_facer · Post by **sun_facer** » Thu Oct 11, 2007 7:04 pm

You're welcome. Do the same for the other members, including myself. Thanks.

My opinion, take tumble. It adds +1 AC to your character every 10 skill points plus beyond 15 points, you are immune to attacks of opporunity already. Put 20 here.
Spring Attack requires 3 feats - Dodge, Mobility (useless IMO) and then Spring Attack. Plus, there is no +AC here. So leave it. I suppose Spring Attack is more for fighter classes who do not have tumble as a class skill but they can make up for it by sacrificing their feats (which they have plenty).

I add my 2 cents regarding dex monks. You have higher AC. But remember that VERY VERY OFTEN, your damage is little. Without a good glove, you are hitting around 10 points of damage per turn. That is 5 hits (+15/+15/+15/+10/+5) without buffs.
If you meet a monster with DR 10/- (or worse DR 15/- later on in the OC), you find yourself hitting lots... but dealing absolutely no damage.
That is my qualm against dex builds, esp monks.

So be careful.

My monk at creation.
STR 15 DEX 14 CON 14
INT 12 WIS 14 CHA 10. STR build.

Ripuanewhole · Post by **Ripuanewhole** » Thu Oct 11, 2007 11:45 pm

I could be wrong on this, but I'm pretty sure that monks loose both their dex and wisdom modifiers if they are cought flat footed, so I wouldn't spend any extra points on wisdom after you've set your initial stats.

If you're going head to head with a high DR monster, than strength is better. However, for the OC I've noticed that a high defence will keep you around longer than being able to dish out lots of damage. You've got 3 companions to help you out with the high DR monsters.

On the flip side you can't carry anything if your strenght is below 12. I find this so anoying that I usually create strong characters. If you don't want the STR 13, I'd go with str=12,dex=17(22),con=14,int=10,wis=16,cha=8. Move 2 points from Con to Int if you prefer an extra 23 skill points over 30 HP and 1 Fortitude save. Charisma is completely worthless to a Monk. You can offset a bad Charisma with a couple extra skill points in Diplomacy. If your Diplomacy rating is 15 or higher you shouldn't have any problems getting what you want in the OC.

Dido on sun_facers resonce to tumble... I won't play a character if I can't get 15 points of tumble, although I've never actually noticed the 10 points of tumble increase my AC. I've always wondered of NWN2 failed to actually include that in the programing.

For the stats, you're character will get 1 point every four levels starting at level 4. This equates to 5 points by level 20.

I can't help you on the evil/good question. I tried playing an evil character once in Star Wars Knights of the Old Republic, and had to quit fairly early on. I just couldn't do it. Makes me feel dirty. The only way I'd go evil is if I needed it to pick it up a class, and I'd probably cheat to do it. In my opinion the game is much more rewarding when you're good.

sun_facer · Post by **sun_facer** » Fri Oct 12, 2007 1:15 am

Ripuanewhole wrote:I could be wrong on this, but I'm pretty sure that monks loose both their dex and wisdom modifiers if they are cought flat footed, so I wouldn't spend any extra points on wisdom after you've set your initial stats.

If you're going head to head with a high DR monster, than strength is better. However, for the OC I've noticed that a high defence will keep you around longer than being able to dish out lots of damage. You've got 3 companions to help you out with the high DR monsters.

I can't help you on the evil/good question. I tried playing an evil character once in Star Wars Knights of the Old Republic, and had to quit fairly early on. I just couldn't do it. Makes me feel dirty. The only way I'd go evil is if I needed it to pick it up a class, and I'd probably cheat to do it. In my opinion the game is much more rewarding when you're good.

You get caught flat footed VERY OFTEN. Esp when surrounded. Which is almost every fight. To me, Dodge, DEX modifiers to AC is a mere show. You are better off with heavy armour, concealment or a shield.

And about companions... very very TRUE! You do have companions! That is why I did not move along past the creation of a monk. Khelgar is my monk. He is not going to multiclass anyway. I puppet him... that is enough monk for me. In fact, I wouldn't play a sorc too. I puppet Qara.
Come to think of it, I wouldn't play a Druid either. I puppet Elanee. But that is me....

However, like you,
I have been toying with ideas about halflings for as long as since NWN1 OC. They are small, cute and so adorable. They are alike elves, only that they are like strunk. Much potential. I often toy with ideas of halfling mages, halfling WMs, halfling clerics, halfling RDDs. But never actually got to it, since I dived into powergaming online in NWN HotU.

But I think that interest have been rekindled here... haha..

And yes, you would find that KOTOR2 and NWN2 are inclined towards the good / light side. In KOTOR2, you get a crappy Force Crush when you have already mastered Force Lightning. If you are evil, you tend to get good points... or need diplomacy if you want all 3 sergeants.
Morever, you also lose influence with a lot of your companions!

Not worth going evil in KOTOR2 and NWN2. And that is just the side. The main is you FEEL lousy.

shift244 · Post by **shift244** » Fri Oct 12, 2007 1:46 am

You get character feats at level 1, 3 and every 3rd (6,9,12...etc) level there after. If you're ok with the concept of character levels, then it's surmised as "One feat at 1st level and at every character levels divisible by 3".

You should not lose your WIS bonus to AC at any time other then when wearing any form of armor or when you are encumbered, however slightly.* So feel free to boost your WIS up. Of course, as noted, it is better to boost DEX than WIS, but that also means WIS items are not totally useless...

You will loose DEX when flat-footed, but that only happens when someone attacks your character when they are not in combat mode.* Being flanked does not mean you're flat-footed, it simply means that those forming the flank get a +2 to hit against you, and it meets the prerequisite for sneak attack to work. You still retain FULL DEX bonus even when hopelessly surrounded. However, the sheer number of attacks against you mean that those that make the hit roll also increase.

By giving up STR entirely for DEX, means that you'll be relying on STR items, which do not stack. Only the highest STR bonus work. You might want to reconsider this as STR 13 means you'll not be carrying much, relying on companions as pack mules. Remember your WIS bonus to AC should fail if you're encumbered. Aside from that, it also means poorer damage, which can compound to mean extra rounds of battle. With the Monk's rapid number of attacks per round at later levels, having that +1 to damage per hit can easily total +3 to +5 damage per round, and that counts when taking on large numbers or even simply a large foe. A dead enemy usually is not a dangerous one.

Having a high STR also makes better use of the Knockdown feats that are free for Monks. Keeping an opponent down means no threat from him for one around and a -4 AC for being prone... perfect targets for flurry of blows. Nothing like having enough STR to trip a giant two size categories larger (which should be allowed by the Improved Knockdown, but I might be wrong here) eh??

* Please note that the NWN2 engine might mean that some are not implemented exactly, or there might be a bug causing it to be false until remedied. However, it should still hold largely true.

sun_facer · Post by **sun_facer** » Fri Oct 12, 2007 2:39 am

Is there any sure way to tell when you are caught flat-footed?

I see a lot of sneak attacks against me when fighting thugs. That's flat-footed.

But then again, I am no expert on the matter.

shift244 · Post by **shift244** » Fri Oct 12, 2007 8:05 am

By rule, you're flat-footed only when you've not acted in combat. I will extend this interpretation of the rule in the NWN2 engine as when the character is not in "combat mode".

Sneak attacks (SA) has a few trigger situations. Flat-footed is one, but so is flanking. Hence, when you're eating SA damage from being mobbed by rogues, you're very probably only being flanked, and not flat footed at all. Especially not when you're also actively fighting back.

However, unless you have really spectacular +8 DEX bonus to AC, the usual +1 to +3 AC from DEX are not often felt when being mobbed, since all those additional attacks aimed at you also mean greater changes a hit is rolled on you.

Flat-footed should only happen when you're sneaked up upon, or you blast a spell from long range, before the target acquires you as a target and charge in. The state flat-footed is simply being unprepared/unawares of an attack aimed at you. All characters that have joined in combat should no longer be flat-footed unless some special effect affects him, like spells for example.

Edit:
To directly answer sun_facer, I suppose the surest way would be to enable the rolls to be displayed and monitor the attack rolls made against you and see if the total that makes the hit falls within your flat-footed AC or your full AC. Note that if your DEX to AC is NOT +2 you need to take care... since being flanked means those flanking you get a +2 to hit, and this can be implemented as a +2 on the attack roll (easier to implement), or a -2 AC (more confusing to implement)... if you get what I mean.

Snipercon · Post by **Snipercon** » Mon Oct 15, 2007 12:36 pm

If you have or are planning to get the expansion, think about this build.

Monk(11)/Favored Soul(12)/Storm Lord(7) or
Monk(11)/Favored Soul(10)/Storm Lord(9)

The point is that you can enchant Shiruken with some nice damage throw them really fast with flurry of blows, and have plus to hit from being a halfling. You can even focus on wisdom and take the Zen Archery feat if you want. In addition plenty of divine spells can power you up and keep you alive.

Screaming Johny · Post by **Screaming Johny** » Tue Oct 16, 2007 11:33 am

Halfling F/M/Rog

I love halfling Monks. But to get the most out of it, I played a F(4)/M(4)/R(rest). I played this through the original NWN & expansion and loved it. He was a dex based sneaky monk that sneak attacked with fists.

So F4 gets you WS-unarmed and an extra BAB point (which gets you an extra attack at level 20). Monk4 gets you some unarmed bonuses. Rog gets you skills galore, uncanny dodge, and sneak attack. By level 20 that's 6d6 sneak attack with a buffed 5 or 6 attacks/round. Oh and with gloves, you can do elemental damage to those pesky damage immune creatures.

Given that the NWN2 OC has a lot of undead (which are immune to sneak attack), you might consider a few more levels of monk and a few less of rogue (but keep in multiples of 4 for maximum BAB).