Viable (Non-Casting) HoF Tank ?

Carnifex · Post by **Carnifex** » Sun Mar 23, 2008 8:12 pm

Hello everyone,

I've been debating this one for quite some time and I'd thought I'd ask you all about your thoughts about this.

What I'm trying to figure out is whether or not a non-casting, non-monk PC can be viable as a tank in HoF mode ?

From what I've gathered the general consensus seems to be that spellswords of different kinds or clerics with high wisdom scores dipping into monk, are the only viable options for the tank role in HoF, with the monsters having ridiculous BAB's. (AC 72 seems to be a number to strive for)

Is there any possibility that a fighter or fighter/cleric build of some sort could survive the onslaught that is HoF ? By picking up feats like dodge and expertise, wielding a shield etc. Or possibly a fighter4/barbarianX with tons of HP and damage reduction to make up for the lack of AC.

I want a tank who's not reliant on Mirror Images, Blurs, Monk WIS AC bonus and whatnot, that's all

I do enjoy powergaming, but having anything but a fighter, fighter/cleric, paladin/cleric, fighter/barbarian clad in heavy armor to fill that role bothers me.

What are your thoughts on the subject ?

/Carnifex

Klorox · Post by **Klorox** » Mon Mar 24, 2008 2:43 pm

I don't think it's possible without spellcasting, or a Monk level.

You'd do alright with a straight barbarian though... they get damage reduction.

A Deep Gnome Barbarian would be kinda cool.

Carnifex · Post by **Carnifex** » Tue Mar 25, 2008 1:20 pm

Klorox wrote:I don't think it's possible without spellcasting, or a Monk level.

You'd do alright with a straight barbarian though... they get damage reduction.

A Deep Gnome Barbarian would be kinda cool.

I wonder if an Aasimar Watcher of Helm25/Paladin1/Fighter4 would do the trick, grabbing dodge, expertise and the best shield he can get his hands on. Also ignoring wisdom past 19, (instead pumping Strength, partly making up for wielding a shield) as he won't be flinging many offensive spells about. I'm sure that or possibly 20 base Wisdom will suffice spells-per-restwise.

(Fighter levels would come last for large sword specialization, reason being the holy avenger)

//Carnifex

Aerich · Post by **Aerich** » Tue Mar 25, 2008 11:37 pm

Um, the Watcher of Helm will be a massive spellcaster. Any major spellcasting class, including cleric, with the possible exception of druid, can be a very good HoF tank. I've used a Ftr/Battleguard, and enjoyed it very much.

It's not really necessary to have a spellcaster as a tank, IF you have sufficient other spellcaster support. A Ftr4/BarbX can do quite well, especially in the damage-dealing department. However, it cannot be a tank in the sense that it can withstand 15-20 rounds of attacks from multiple enemies (as a mirror-imaged 72 AC tank might be able to do).

Survival in HoF is far more about group tactics than the strength of any particular character - don't let the power-gamer builds deceive you. Any normal party can do HoF too.

Carnifex · Post by **Carnifex** » Wed Mar 26, 2008 3:42 am

Aerich wrote:Um, the Watcher of Helm will be a massive spellcaster. Any major spellcasting class, including cleric, with the possible exception of druid, can be a very good HoF tank. I've used a Ftr/Battleguard, and enjoyed it very much.

It's not really necessary to have a spellcaster as a tank, IF you have sufficient other spellcaster support. A Ftr4/BarbX can do quite well, especially in the damage-dealing department. However, it cannot be a tank in the sense that it can withstand 15-20 rounds of attacks from multiple enemies (as a mirror-imaged 72 AC tank might be able to do).

Survival in HoF is far more about group tactics than the strength of any particular character - don't let the power-gamer builds deceive you. Any normal party can do HoF too.

Yeah, he'll be a spellcaster but would still be fullfilling my idea of a tank in the sense that he'd be wearing fullplate and a shield and have a high strength score. Everyone and his brother seems to use a monk level or enough arcane caster levels for Mirror image combined with high dexterity, which is not what I want to do at all. If I wanted to play a spellsword, I'd fire up BG2 and roll a kensai/mage

In your opinion, would a Wis score of 19/20 suffice ? Seeing as he won't be casting offensive spells that much, but rather buffs and heals. I doubt I'd even need to memorize any cc spells at all since he wil be grouped with a fighter/dreadmaster (fighter levels added late), a rogue1/diviner29 and a sorcerer.

The sorcerer being the main nuker while the dreadmaster and diviner will be taking care of the enchantment spells mainly, wails, FoD's and wiltings coming from both the arcane casters and the diviner throwing disintegrates around (at least in normal mode). I could post the level progression and feat selections of each toon once I get back from work if anyone's interested

Anyways, I'm glad to hear HoF seems to be doable even without a "decoy" or wicked-AC tank.

//Carnifex

Klorox · Post by **Klorox** » Wed Mar 26, 2008 7:06 am

Heck, if that's your goal, I suggest a Deep Gnome (again, the Blur, Mirror Image, and +4 AC can NOT be ignored) Cleric of Tempus.

That would be an awesome tank (by your definition).

Max STR, WIS, CON, and start with a 14 DEX and you'll be gravy-baby.

You start with Weapon Focus in one of the best weapon categories in the game, will wear the best armors, and will be an awesome spell chucker. You don't need those stinkin' Fighter levels!

Carnifex · Post by **Carnifex** » Wed Mar 26, 2008 8:30 am

Klorox wrote:Heck, if that's your goal, I suggest a Deep Gnome (again, the Blur, Mirror Image, and +4 AC can NOT be ignored) Cleric of Tempus.

That would be an awesome tank (by your definition).

Max STR, WIS, CON, and start with a 14 DEX and you'll be gravy-baby.

You start with Weapon Focus in one of the best weapon categories in the game, will wear the best armors, and will be an awesome spell chucker. You don't need those stinkin' Fighter levels!

That's an interesting idea, that way I don't have to bother with a paladin level for the holy avenger either, and get spell resistance anyway. I might try that

Possibly grabbing a fighter level late to gain access to more weapons and going Helm, as I'm not really impressed by the tempus spells/abilities.

//Carnifex

Klorox · Post by **Klorox** » Wed Mar 26, 2008 10:06 am

I chose Tempus just for the Axe Focus. If you want another deity that'll work too. Helm will give you a better AC and Lathander will give you fire spells.

I'd almost suggest using a feat for weapon proficiency rather than taking a level in fighter. But if you're definitely going to dip into another class, make it Paladin (even if your CHA is 1). I don't want to spoil anything for you, but you'll be happier with a Paladin level at a certain point than just the extra feat from choosing Fighter. Heck, as long as you're dipping, squat and dip for 2 levels of Paladin (the immunity to Fear is very useful at a few points in the game). Since you're going to be using a shield anyway, you may as well take advantage of the Holy Avenger as well. It's definitely the best 1 handed weapon in regular mode, and very useful in HoF mode too.