Dungeon Siege III Interview
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GB: Before I get into Dungeon Siege III, can you tell us a bit about your time at Black Isle Studios? What were you working on during your time there?
Rich: I don't even know if they ever announced it. It was Baldur's Gate III at the time.
GB: Yeah, yeah. Jefferson?
Rich: Jefferson. And then we were working on Fallout 3, which everyone knows nowadays.
GB: I don't mean to get off topic here, but how far along was the development of Baldur's Gate III based on your time working on it?
Rich: I'm trying to think back. We had working levels and stuff, but it had a ways to go. We had finished the world and we were making areas and things like that, and the art was really coming along. And I know we were starting to work on the classes and details like that.
GB: Do people around here still talk about that project to this day, perhaps grumbling about its cancellation?
Rich: [laughter] I think we still probably have like 10 or 15 Black Isle people around here. But seven years is a long time and people come and go and forget.
GB: Alright, back to Dungeon Siege III. How did you learn that Obsidian had secured the Dungeon Siege license and was it a license that you ever expected to be working on?
Rich: It's hard to know. I wasn't involved in getting it together. I actually became project director last year, so I kind of stepped up into that role. So it was sort of like, "Hey, you're working on Dungeon Siege and get to work," you know [laughter].
I was a lead programmer at the time we obtained it; it was a collaborative discussion between us and Square. They really wanted a western-style RPG, and of course that's what we enjoy making here. My assumption is that when they looked around for licenses that would be a good jump off point, Dungeon Siege stuck out as one.
It's one of those cases where it's a license that people recognize the name. But it's not a game that just came out last year, so it's kind of a, "Hey, why don't we take this and bring it to a modern console, because no one's done that yet." So it kind of stuck out as an opportunity like that.
GB: Why did you decide to go with Dungeon Siege III? Why not Dungeon Siege and a subtitle in order to define it as more of a reboot like it is?
Rich: [laughter] That's a very good question. We actually talked about going that route. Ultimately, it was what we settled after talking it over with Square. There was already a PSP version of Dungeon Siege that had a subtitle.
GB: Throne of Agony?
Rich: Yeah. I think Square Enix just wanted to establish this as where Dungeon Siege is going now, this is the line.
GB: In your opinion, what makes the Onyx engine perfect for a game like Dungeon Siege III? What are the strengths of the Onyx engine?
Rich: The reason we decided to make our own technology was because RPGs are a different beast than a lot of different types of games. There's a lot of data, a lot of class abilities, creature and loot tables, and things like that. And we really wanted make an engine that catered well to that - something that let our designers do a lot of the work without having to wait in line for a programmer to have time to add or modify this or that. The designer can just go in there and manipulate it.
An example of something that we have in place in the engine is class abilities that each of the classes have access to. [Our designers] can open up a tool that lets them attach visual effects at different points in a timeline, or produce damage here or there. This attack should hit three enemies. This one shoots three projectiles. They just toggle a flag - all that stuff is right there in the tool for them.
As soon as they want to do something that isn't in there yet, we're just like, "Oh, okay; well let's work on getting support into the engine for that." And they can tweak and tune and adjust those things working with the animators and the visual effects artists. So it really catered well to the type of game we were making.
We also have things like our dialogue editor, which is perfect for the type of dialogues we write. It shows the dialogue tree, and because we always have these branching dialogues in an Obsidian title where the player can make so many different choices, having editors that cater specifically to that is the kind of thing we were looking for.
So those are a lot of the advantages of working on it. It's a lot of data-driven systems that let designers iterate quickly. And systems like quest and missions and the dialogue system all cater very well to Dungeon Siege III.
GB: Is the internal toolset that you're referencing similar to the Neverwinter Nights 2 toolset?
Rich: I think you would find some similarities with it, but it's our own toolset. They modeled some of the controls off of the XSI 3D art package. In the Neverwinter toolset, the mouse controls essentially move around and zoom in. You wouldn't sit down and control the toolset exactly like Neverwinter's. But once you learn the control scheme for [the Onyx engine toolset], well then it becomes just as natural. But you'd see a lot of the same things.
We can open up a conversation editor, and we made some improvements on the older dialogue editors that we used to use that really made it easy to work on this. You can get a "big picture" view of the dialogue and literally see it as a tree and all of the little nodes going across it. It caters very well to working on those for us.
GB: Any chance of releasing the toolset to the public?
Rich: Not for Dungeon Siege III. Well, who knows what's down the line.
GB: Even if you don't, will you support modding in any capacity? Even without a toolset, people will always find a way to modify the game.
Rich: We're just not set up to support them for it on this one. We're certainly not going to discourage it - anything people can do is awesome.
GB: How would you compare the scope of this game to that of the first two Dungeon Siege titles? Is it larger, is it longer, is it more cohesive - what should people expect from this game?
Rich: Story is something that we really focused on. We want the game to have an antagonist. We want the player to encounter characters and build relationships with them, do favors for them, get upset with them. We really wanted to emphasize that side of it.
If you've played some of our other titles like KotOR II, you'll find a lot of those same types of elements in the world of Ehb this time. The branching dialogue paths, optional side quests, and things like that. Players will be exposed to a very cohesive narrative from start to finish.
We were very careful about picking George Ziets as our creative director. We were very careful about our lead creative designer. We were very careful about making sure that everything fits together. Is this fitting the lore? Is this fitting the history? Does this work or doesn't it?
Every once in awhile, something gets in there and someone goes, "Uh oh, that's actually not supposed to be in there. It's gotta come out." We really want it to feel like a believable fantasy world within the Dungeon Siege universe.
GB: Why did you decide to go with four preset characters versus allowing custom characters? Obviously there are benefits in that they can all be voiced and the cinematics can reflect their personalities, but some people will likely want to customize their character's appearance or maybe spec which abilities they want them to have access to.
Rich: Yeah, that's a good question. There is still customization in the sense that you level up, you identify which abilities you want to emphasize, and that sort of thing. On the talents page, you pick the ones that you like or that seem to be conducive to the style of play that you want to go with. So there is that type of customization, but there isn't, like you said, the ability to change appearance or grab abilities from another character and bring them over. A lot of that went back to - we just wanted the game to be very approachable and we didn't want there to be a whole lot of setup involved with getting into the game.
We really wanted to have you sit down, and then present you with a character that has a story. You're going to pick this character, you're going to get into the world, and people are going to react to your character. That all works a lot better where we're able to control the direction.
GB: I assume every character has a unique beginning and a unique ending, but how does your character selection change things between those two points in the storyline? Are there romances that can be pursued or anything in a similar vein?
Rich: There is reactivity to the character that you're playing. There isn't a romance in Dungeon Siege III, but there are certain quests that will be there or not be there, depending on the player character that you're using.
GB: So Anjali will have access to quests that aren't available to Lucas?
Rich: Hmm, how do I get around this it's in a section of the game that I'm not supposed to talk about yet. I'm trying to think of how best to phrase it. You'll basically find that if you start with a character, it'll actually become very clear as you play through because there are certain quests that wouldn't even make sense if you were not playing as one of the characters we haven't talked about yet. If you're not playing as him, you'd get this quest that has you dealing with his storyline and getting him up and going. But if you're playing as him, you wouldn't get that quest because it doesn't make sense to be given that quest as a secondary thing. That whole sequence goes a little differently because you're now playing as him.
There are other quests that have a similar situation as that. There are different NPCs that you work with in the first region that tie in with the characters we haven't talked about yet. There are different NPCs that will help you out because of the character that you've picked.
GB: How many cities are in the game? We saw Stonebridge and there was a mention of a village early on in the game, though I have yet to get there with my hands-on.
Rich: So there's Rukkenvahl, which is the village in region one and kind of the hub that it's built around. Stonebridge is the big city in the game. The other regions have I don't really want to call them cities there are hubs in the other areas, but they're in different states. For instance, one is more of a battlefield campsite where you're operating out of.
Another one is a refuge and people are holed up there, and you're going in and to help them out. So the actual town-specific areas are Raven's Rill in Rukkenvahl and Stonebridge City.
GB: How difficult is it to get back to one of these towns when you're down in a dungeon and your inventory is full? Is there some sort of teleportation spell?
Rich: There isn't, but the layouts of the regions actually tend to lend themselves to getting back pretty quickly. So there's not an instant "jump back to town" sort of ability, but we were always looking at it, "Is the player way too far out here?", "Does this loop back around?", or "Is there a shortcut that's going to help them get back?" And we made sure to put those types of quick returns in, so it's very easy to get back.
GB: How difficult is it to activate and reach the causeway?
Rich: Well, you gain access to it as part of the story progression, and then once you have access to it, it's not difficult to get to it. But it is at fixed locations; it's not something you can just open up at any time.
GB: I haven't seen it yet, but is it designed in such a way where each of the portals lead to a specific town or hub in the game?
Rich: It does connect to the hubs. When I talk about the shortcuts we've put in to make it possible to get back, the causeway factors into that.
GB: So if you need to get back to Stonebridge, for example, there's a specific portal to it in the causeway?
Rich: Yeah. And we also looked at making sure that there are merchants out in the world as well. So you're not thinking, "Oh, my inventory's overloaded... I have to go all the way to town."
We wanted to facilitate being able to go back to town; but we also want the player to stay out in the dungeons and other regions without feeling that they need to make return trips going back and forth. So we usually try to eyeball places and say, "Is there a merchant out in this region?" or "How far does a player have to go to get back here?"
And sometimes you unlock stores by completing quests. Now you have a new place where you can go and unload your loot because you helped this NPC out and now he's got a store set up for you.
GB: But how accommodating is the game for you to backtrack when you need to? If you're midway through the game, can you go back to an earlier area without much trouble?
Rich: Yeah, we never lock you off.
GB: Never?
Rich: Well I guess I shouldn't say never. There are a couple of places where once you go past a certain point, there's no going back; but [these points] are more toward the very end and very start of the game. Pretty much the entire middle majority of the game you're never blocked from going backwards. So if there's a quest and you think, "Oh, I missed that or I didn't find that guy, or I just didn't care about that quest at the time," you can totally go back and do it.
GB: Each region retains a static difficulty, though, right? So if you backtrack to an area that housed level 10 opponents, there are still level 10 opponents there on your return?
Rich: Yeah, for the most part. With bosses, we tend to try and scale them to something that's an appropriate challenge for the player; usually upward, not downward. If you get to it too early, well, maybe you shouldn't have come there quite yet.
We don't want to lock you out of going there. But you might get the sense of, "Yeah, this is a little tougher than what it's supposed to be, but I really want to take down this boss." If you come to a boss at a higher level than the minimum level to fight it, then boss encounters will often tune up.
GB: If there's a boss that you just absolutely cannot beat, do enemies respawn in previous areas so that you can go back and grind out another level or two?
Rich: Yeah, you can level up and get more loot, or go back to town and buy that sweet sword that you saw on the merchant.
GB: So enemies do respawn?
Rich: Yeah. We try to keep them out aways, though. We don't want them literally right behind your back as you go. But if you backtrack, you'll find that they're there again.
GB: Jumping to something else, how many different types of weapons are in the game? I noticed that there were some rifles and muskets -
Rich: Mm-hmm, some guns.
GB: and a lot of different swords. There are zweihanders, shamshirs, and some more exotic weaponry. It seems like there's a fairly large variety.
Rich: Yeah, there is. Each of the characters has three unique weapon types just for them. And yes, one of them does use guns. [laughter] Anjali uses the spear, and then she also has bracelets and anklets that kind of serve as her weapons in her elemental form. We really didn't want to put something in her hand. We wanted her to be throwing fire around and manipulating fire, rather than having her swinging a weapon. So we went with these bracelets and anklets that you'll see light up for her weapons in that stance.
GB: Do any of the weapons overlap? I know you said that there are three unique weapons for each character class, but can a character use a unique weapon outside of those three types even if they're not proficient with it?
Rich: No, they don't overlap. Actually, all of the gear is unique to a specific character, except for rings and amulets - those can be worn by any character and the stats on them will just cater to different characters better than others.
GB: Are there any minimum stat or level requirements on the items? I haven't seen any yet.
Rich: No, there are no level or stat requirements on the items. If you get lucky, the system will provide some nice loot for you. But it's typically appropriate for where your character is at. You're not going to see a sword tuned for a level 30 drop while you're at level 5 or anything like that. But if a really good item does drop, you can always use it.
GB: I've seen white-, green-, and blue-colored items so far. Is that the progression?
Rich: Yeah, it's pretty much the standard. We have the white, the green, the blue, and then I believe the top tier is orange- or gold-colored.
GB: So the top tier is unique and handcrafted?
Rich: The gold ones? I believe we call them artifact items. Yeah, they're usually from a quest reward or a secret hidden chest you found; each one is specifically placed because the idea was, "Hey, if the player finds this, here's a really nice reward for coming across it." And those will tend to be the gold items.
GB: Will the artifact items ever just randomly drop during a boss fight or even from standard enemies?
Rich: Yeah, they can.
GB: You've previously mentioned that are something like 15,000 different item possibilities in the game. How many of those are artifact items? And are any of them set items?
Rich: You know, I don't have a number, but there are no set pieces. As far as how many are uniquely made, it's well over a hundred, but I don't know an exact number.
GB: Despite the game being very story-driven, have you incporporated the ability for players to do boss runs? In other words, can we farm bosses for gold, experience, and loot?
Rich: There actually isn't. And that's one of those cases where it just doesn't fit the story and the progression through the main quest to be able to go back and keep farming a boss over and over. Normal enemies in the areas will respawn, but typically there will only be a few cases where optional bosses will respawn.
In my head, I'm thinking of two that would be there every time you went there. But on the whole, major story villains are not going to keep coming back. Usually the fact that they're even there is part of an event sequence that you've set in motion, so they're just not going to be there every time.
GB: But it would be possible, with the two you mentioned, to farm for items?
Rich: Yeah. I think more towards the optional bosses, that becomes a possibility.
GB: From what I understand, there's no way to respec a character. Is that correct?
Rich: That's correct. We're looking at about a 15-hour to 20-hour gameplay experience. If you want to try something else, it's best to just start over the game and do another run-through. It's not like you're committed to an 80-hour marathon play-through to try out a different character. We actually hope that people do a quick play-through with another character.
When you beat it once, why not just jump in for a few hours on another character and see if you want to take it all the way with them? Now try out this character, see if you want to take them all the way through. But yeah, we've talked about respecing as a feature. Right now it's not in.
GB: Thank you very much for your time, Rich.
